Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign.
Welcome back to Spill the Tea HSC with Lauren and Bri.
[00:00:19] Speaker B: This episode is proudly brought to you by the law firm Ryan and Rouse. If you or a loved one have been injured or need legal help for changing family circumstances, or contact the personal injury and family law attorneys at Ryan and rouse today at 256-801-1000 or visit them online at www.alabamalaw.com. when your future is on the line, don't go at it alone.
[00:00:50] Speaker C: Okay?
[00:00:50] Speaker A: Hey, Bri.
[00:00:52] Speaker D: Hey, Lauren.
[00:00:53] Speaker A: All right, so we are back with Suzanne Fortnum. We are going to talk about romanticizing the relationship today.
[00:01:02] Speaker C: Yes. And talking about it in the early stages. Hi, everyone. It's good to be back. I'm Suzanne Fortnam. I'm a licensed professional counselor. Before we get started, I just wanted to give a disclaimer that the content shared in this podcast. Podcast is for informational and education purposes only. It is not intended as professional advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Listeners should consult with a qualified professional for guidance regarding their individual situation. Situation.
[00:01:31] Speaker A: Thank you.
So get us started. Let's. Let's get into this. I know I'm guilty of it. Romanticized relationships, especially early on.
[00:01:40] Speaker D: Same.
[00:01:41] Speaker C: Yeah. So I'm sure many of your listeners have gone on a couple of dates, or maybe not even gone on a couple of dates. Maybe they're doing the online dating thing and they get pulled into a chat and they've never actually met the person, but they're. They're talking and talking. Haven't set up a time to meet, and suddenly you're just imagining what your life could look like with this person. What would the wedding look like? Where'd you live?
What would your future kids names be if they're divorced and have kids? How would you fit in as a stepparent? How might your kids fit into this potential future?
That's the fantasy we're talking about today, folks. When we fall in love with someone's potential instead of who they really are.
[00:02:29] Speaker A: Falling in love with potential.
[00:02:32] Speaker D: Been there, done that.
[00:02:36] Speaker A: Three times.
Yeah, that's, that's hard. Like, how do you, how do you stop yourself from doing and spiraling into that system? Because I think we're, we, especially as women are taught at a young age because of fairy tales, right? Like we're taught, like, oh, romanticize this. Like, you know, plan your future out. See it out. Like, you know, little girls are told to, you know, dream about their wedding.
[00:03:05] Speaker C: Day, and that's part of it. And that's some of what we're going to talk about today.
How it happens, or, you know, some of how it happens is the relationships, particularly early on, feel exciting, even intoxicating.
But those feelings can set us up for heartbreak if we're not careful.
And when we look into defining the concept of romanticizing potential, it's when we project what could be onto someone rather than paying attention to who they actually are today and what they're showing us today.
It's really normal to feel hopeful in early dating.
That's part of the magic, right? That's part of the excitement. But the danger comes when our vision of who they might be becomes overshadowed with the reality in front of us.
[00:03:57] Speaker A: Yeah, that's. That's hard.
[00:03:58] Speaker D: It is hard because you think you're getting this great person. And Tamika kind of like goes into. Especially when, like, they love bomb you from the get go anyways and you're already like, romanticizing this relationship. It just makes it ten times harder.
[00:04:11] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:04:12] Speaker C: I mean, and that's, that's part of it, right?
The love bombing. I've talked about it in another episode on the podcast, but the breadcrumbing that happens where you're, you know, they're giving you a little bit, giving you a little bit, but not truly meeting what it is that you are needing.
[00:04:33] Speaker A: Is there like a how long? Because that's the thing is, like, it's hard to know how long it takes to actually get to know somebody, right? Like somebody's true self. Because, like, with Dick, I feel like I thought I knew the true him.
And then three years later, the. Everything started to fall.
So it took like three full years. Like, there were red flags in there, as we know, but like, when I really came to you and almost every single session you and I had, I was like, something's going on.
It was after we had been married and like three years into our relationship, it was like the, the veil started falling. So, like, how can somebody, when people can keep it up for that long, it's hard to see, like, it's hard to know when you're actually ever going to know the true person.
[00:05:23] Speaker C: Right. And sometimes it happens so subtly that we don't even realize it's happening or the other person has become really good at it, not just in their relationship with you, but it's been a pattern in other relationships. So they know how to continue that pattern without obvious or.
[00:05:43] Speaker D: I feel like narcissists are really good at that because that's exactly how number two was for me.
Great in the beginning, but then it took about three years to really understand who he was as a person, and it was not a good person.
[00:05:55] Speaker C: Right?
[00:05:56] Speaker A: Yeah. And then it's like, you know, was how. Like, were we. Were we truly romanticizing everything? Or was, like, were they helping feed into that? Like, you know, how do you tell the difference? And how do you stop yourself from romanticizing in the first place? Yeah, we're so ingrained to do it.
Right.
[00:06:16] Speaker C: I think that's a really good question. And one of the things I wanted to talk about today is some of the psychological roots, why we do it.
So there's a few different reasons. One is biology and chemistry. So that dopamine and oxytocin. Oxytocin in early attraction. Biochemically, dating gives us a rush. Dopamine and oxytocin flood our systems, and it makes everything feel more intact. And with that intensity, we also feel hopeful that this is, like, what might really be. Right. Like, we have this idea of, oh, my gosh, this could be the future.
[00:06:58] Speaker D: So what happens when you no longer feel that anymore?
[00:07:01] Speaker C: Yeah, well, that's when we're starting to look at and recognize that, like, maybe the relationship isn't what we thought it was.
[00:07:09] Speaker A: Do we think that people like Dick, for instance, who obviously date a massive amount of women, no matter if they're in relationships or not? Because, like, recently, when I saw him on the day that I saw him on, I asked him if she knew about how he was supposed to be on a date with another woman last week, and he said no.
So I'm like, he obviously is still continuing his pattern where he just dates a massive amount of women, and then he says, I'm not dating them. But then they all think that they're dating because he's not actually honest. And is he just, like, addicted to this.
This rush that you talk about? Like, is that part of, like, a narcissist thing, is that they get addicted to the rush? Or people who have multiple affairs and cheat all the time, is that, like, part of their, like, issue is that they're chemically, like, I. I need a constant rush and a constant change and a constant validation, and that's all part of it.
[00:08:07] Speaker C: So I think what you're. So that can be a component of narcissism, but it can also be its own standalone category. What you're describing sounds a lot more like sex and love addiction, where they chase that rush of the new relationship, the idea of someone loving them, taking care of them.
[00:08:29] Speaker A: I mean, I definitely think he has an addiction to both of those things.
[00:08:32] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:08:32] Speaker C: And also, like, the intensity of the sexual chemistry at the beginning of a relationship can also feel really addictive.
[00:08:40] Speaker A: But it's normal, right, for everyone to, for the sexual chemistry to level out. Like, you're still attracted to your partner, hopefully, but it's like, I think that's the thing that people understand. People like, oh, I'm just not attracted to you anymore. And it's like, are you or is this just normal? Like, eventually that rush goes away and you're building a life together and this is just normal. And I think people mistake, like they, they call it mundane, but it's like, this is just, this is normal. And what you have, what you were feeling before is a high. That's not normal and is not sustainable in any relationship.
[00:09:14] Speaker C: I think that's a really great question.
When we think about emotions generally in a new relationship or otherwise, even like an emotion, like anger is a really good example. So when we have these heightened emotions, right, they're really high initially, but emotions don't typically stay heightened in that escalated state for a prolonged period of time.
Now it can be for, in a new relationship for a period of like four or five, six months. But eventually like that intensity tends to come down. And with sex and love addiction, they.
There could be a want or a desire to essentially.
[00:10:02] Speaker D: So would a lot of this be considered? Because, you know, you hear people when they get into new relationships or like they're newly married, they call it like the honeymoon phase.
They're like, okay, then the honeymoon phase, it fizzles out over time, which is normal.
[00:10:15] Speaker C: Yeah, right?
[00:10:17] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:10:18] Speaker A: But then I feel like there's, I don't know what's going. And I'm not saying women don't do it, but I know that there's like an epidemic out there right now that it's like as soon as a honeymoon phase is over and things get real, they bounce. And because I, and I see that like in a ton of friends right now. Like I have a friend who is in a two year relationship with somebody and he just was like, peace out. After asking the mother for permission to marry her, after constantly telling her, like, oh, you're it, you're my life. Like, this is your safe space if you ever feel a certain way. Because she had been traumatized in past relationships and she was very honest from the beginning about that. And he was like, well, if you ever feel that way with me, just tell me.
And now he dropped her out of nowhere and she could like, finally got him to like sit down and have a conversation to try to like help her get Closure. And I think it did in the fact that, like, now she's like, yeah, he's just. He has issues because he tried to throw all that back in her face. And she was like, you told me to tell you when I was feeling this way. And he's like, it was just so much like, you know, it was. It was just.
I just felt like you were never happy. And it's like, what? Like, no, I was happy. I was just being honest with you whenever I felt a certain way, but it didn't. Like, I was happy the whole time, and he was putting all the blame on her. And this man is 46 years old, right?
And I'm just like, what do you want out of life? It's just like, all these men that are out there, like, 16, 70 years old, saying, I don't. I'm. They are just looking for something casual. Bro, you're about to die.
What do you mean you're looking for something casual? And this is why us women are all like, you know what? Instead of men, we're gonna all build a compound together, and we're gonna have goats and chickens and read on our porches and do crafts, like, as a compound of women taking care of each other, because we actually will take care of each other, whereas men just cause problem.
[00:12:17] Speaker C: Right?
[00:12:17] Speaker B: How do we.
[00:12:18] Speaker A: How do we.
How do we have hope, Suzanne?
[00:12:25] Speaker C: Well, I think when we think about hope, we have to keep in mind that relationships take work, and it's both people continuously showing up to do the work.
[00:12:41] Speaker A: Well, you yourself have a great marriage, and both of you obviously show up to do the work and have been successful in that, so it's. It's possible. It is out there, Brie. And I don't know what that life is like, but.
But.
But it is possible, but it's just hard to. Like, I'm getting to the point where I don't even know. I don't think I'll ever romanticize a relationship again. I had a guy yesterday tell me I was getting my oil change, and this guy's hitting on me. And my response was to show him I was. I was doing a TikTok for the podcast, and it was of a house burning down.
And I was. I put something, you know, about dick on there, and I showed him the video, and he's like, oh, have you been through some trauma? I was like, yeah, you want to see this photo shoot? And I showed him the photo of me in the bloody wedding dress with an ax. And I'm like, yeah, you probably shouldn't date me.
[00:13:44] Speaker C: Running in the other direction.
[00:13:46] Speaker A: No, he still was like, come back and see me. I was like, red flag.
Red flag. Like, if you think that everything. I just. I don't know you. And I showed you a house burning down and a picture of me in a bloody wedding dress with cheater across the bottom of it.
[00:14:04] Speaker D: They love crazy, though.
[00:14:06] Speaker A: They love crazy. Bloody ax.
And your thought was, yeah, I want to go out with this girl, I guess. But I'm like, I'm not even trying to be crazy. I'm just showing you, like, hey, bro. Like, I'm not in a space today.
[00:14:19] Speaker D: He likes spooky season.
[00:14:20] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:14:23] Speaker C: Thinking the same thing. Rio is like, maybe he's just, like, really into Halloween.
[00:14:29] Speaker A: Maybe. But he did say he was like, did he. Did he cheat on you? I was like, yeah. And I was like, a lot. And he was just like, well, he's an idiot. And I was like. I was like, well, he'll probably tell everybody it was because I was fat at the time. And he was like, that's not a reason to cheat on somebody. I was like, I did say that to Dick when I saw him. I was like, you know, you had an issue with me gaining weight, which, sir, you did, too. Like, you had gained, like, 80 pounds with me. Like, you were fat, so. And I still loved you. He was like, that wasn't it. And I was like, wasn't it? Again, as women, we're constantly trying to look for a reason as to why things don't work out.
[00:15:03] Speaker C: Right.
Right.
[00:15:05] Speaker A: So. Which I think is another episode we're getting ready to do. But it's still, like, you know, I romanticize so much because he was very body positive when I met him.
And I think that that was a huge thing for me, was like, finding a guy who was very body positive and not like a lot of men are constantly talking about, like, they need a trophy wife of sorts. So finding a man who was like, no, I like curves. I like real women.
And he constantly promoted that. I romanticized the hell out of that in that relationship and thought that I was safe in my body and. And I actually felt secure in my body, no matter the size, for the first time ever. And then he ripped that away. Right.
[00:15:46] Speaker C: And going back to, like, the psychological roots of, like, why we do it, that's another reason, is our own personal history and narrative. So sometimes it's like feeling feelings of loneliness and insecurity.
Other times it's unmet needs.
So maybe for you, Lauren, nobody had made you feel safe in Your body or another man hadn't made you feel safe in your body, or at least not for a really long time. And so it was like, this feels different. This feels good. My nervous system can relax in this relationship. Other times, it's childhood wounds, and sometimes it's just personal.
Like, we felt. Felt lonely, had unmet needs.
When this is the reason, we're more.
[00:16:34] Speaker E: Likely to latch onto the fantasy of.
[00:16:36] Speaker C: Someone who seems like they could finally.
[00:16:39] Speaker E: Be the one to meet and fill.
[00:16:40] Speaker C: Those needs for us.
[00:16:42] Speaker A: Let's talk about loneliness for a second. Because I don't know that life.
So, like, for me, personally, I don't. I. I think there's a lot of women out there who feel that, who feel like, if I don't have a man, I'm going to be lonely for the rest of my life. Like, they're so focused on getting a man. They don't invest in friendships. They don't invest in themselves and getting hobbies and, like, actually putting in effort in those places that can be permanent. And they put effort into men and their thought process into that. Because their thought is, I'm going to be lonely forever. Like, how can people shift that mindset? Because, like, for me personally, being how I am and just like an extrovert, I have a ton of hobbies. I love to do stuff. I love to go out with all my friends and do stuff. Like how I'm okay being single, but a lot of women are. So, like, how do they shift that mindset into, like, you know, forcing themselves to actually go out and actually, you know, make friends, find hobbies? Like, even if they're introverts, right? There's stuff for everybody, like book clubs, there's crafting groups, there's all kinds of stuff people can do. But how do we shift that mindset? Like, you don't need a man. So that's not a reason. Being lo is not a reason to try to, like, romanticize a relationship or latch on.
[00:17:59] Speaker C: That is such a tough question. One of the things that, like, became very apparent during the pandemic when people were isolated from loved ones was just how big an epidemic loneliness was. So those feelings can become really overpowering. And then when we meet someone, it becomes really easy to project onto them because it's like, this is easing those. Those feelings that are really hard for me to sit with. So one of the things we have to think about between relationships as we're getting to know someone, is making a conscious choice to continually come back to ourselves, to shift our focus back to ourselves.
To our interests, to our own growth, to who we are outside of a relationship.
[00:18:55] Speaker A: Right. And I know, like, for me, I talked to a friend of mine this weekend who's also single and not actively looking at all, and she. We were talking about how a lot of women invest all their time in men and they don't invest in relationships. And the thing is, is then they, after the fact, are like, oh, I have no friends. And it's like, yeah, because you didn't put an effort into friendships. Friendships take work, too.
And you have to put in an equal amount of. Even if you're in a. In a relationship with a man, you can't drop your friends because as soon as you do, they're going to disappear. And then nine times out of 10, that man's eventually going to disappear, too. And then you have no friends left because you didn't cultivate that relationship.
[00:19:35] Speaker D: So I think for a lot of us who are single, and maybe in that space of where we're not okay with being single, it's because, like, in my case, it's because I want a family.
Like, that is what I have always thought of. Like, I want the husband, I want the kids. Like, I want the family. But you're right. At the same time, like, you do have to cultivate those relationships or else you're going to lose them.
So. And it's just, I guess it's just based on what each person wants. Like, some of us are comfortable being single, some of us are not. And it's not that I'm not comfortable being single, but it's like the big picture in my mind, like, where I want to get to is a family.
[00:20:11] Speaker C: Well, and I think bre. That, like, goes back. Ties back to the psychological root of personal narratives and personal stories. Right. It sounds like you have a lot of, like, you hold a really high value around having a family and building a family and that family life together. And so for you, that might be one of the reasons in getting into a relationship.
[00:20:39] Speaker D: And I used to be that way. Now it's like there are so many. Like, I could have easily jumped into another relationship again, like, within the last several months, but I didn't because, like, I had to stop and think, like, is this good for me? Is this the. You know who I'm talking about? Lauren Shady as had a girlfriend. I stopped and I looked at it and figured stuff out. So it's just. It's a hard balance, I think, because, like, I'm okay being by myself, and I know I'm okay Being by myself, but, you know, I don't get out. I don't do a lot of stuff because I choose not to.
[00:21:14] Speaker A: Well, you know, we do this on the podcast. We get real here. I, like, I worry about you, Bri, like, as the extrovert in this relationship, as your extrovert, I. I worry about you that a lot of times these guys that you have, you've put a lot of energy into men this year who are not. They're not even on your level. So, like, as your friend, I'm actually ask pool boys who. Or. And. Or boys who live places that are three hours away.
You know, like, that's. I want you to invest your time in someone who actually deserves your time. Other extroverts may feel this way with their introverted friends. Like, I worry sometimes with my introverted friends that they accept somebody too easily that isn't good enough for them, just because you do have more time on your hands because you are at home more.
So you're like, oh, well, let me just text him. Let me invest more time in this person when they're not even worth texting. So it's like, no, invest your time doing, like, something that's gonna grow yourself or grow, you know, whatever business or whatever you're doing. Like, invest your time in that rather than investing it in men. But how. But you're right, Bri. A lot of women want families. I don't know what that's like, but I have you. I have another friend who.
[00:22:33] Speaker C: Who's.
[00:22:33] Speaker A: We're turning. I'm. Me and her are both turning 38, and she's in the same boat. She's like, I wanted kids, and now I'm having to learn to accept that that may not happen for me.
And also, is it society that makes me want kids? Do I truly want kids? What is the. Like, you know, how do I work through this? You know, do I adopt? What are my other options? Like, do I do go down any of these other roads? And so, like Suzanne, do we just. Again, we say this all the time. It seems like the solution to this is therapy.
[00:23:04] Speaker E: That is a solution.
[00:23:06] Speaker C: And I just want to comment on, like.
[00:23:10] Speaker E: The kids piece and without getting us too off track, but acknowledge that there is a certain amount of work and grieving and sense of loss for a lot of women if they're, like, between the ages of 38 and 42 and faced with the decision of, like, I might have to accept that this is. That I can't have the future that I want. It is incredibly Painful to sit with, which could be another factor that drives that projection.
[00:23:50] Speaker C: Right.
[00:23:52] Speaker E: We talked about loneliness, but there's also fear. Fear of not having the future and the life that you envisioned for yourself.
[00:23:59] Speaker A: Yeah. And that sucks, because no women.
A woman who wants to be a mother should be able to be a mother. And that's the thing that sucks is because you see all these people out there that. And it's completely off topic, but you see a ton of people out there that shouldn't be moms that have kids. And you're like, why can't my friends who actually want to be moms and be good moms have that?
And I mean, I even one. One of my friends that wants kids so bad even said, like, I just want to get pregnant. And I'm to the point I only care who's by. But then I had to talk to her about that. I had to be like, okay, but let's look at that.
Then you're sharing custody with someone who you may hate.
Then you're having to deal with a kid that's in a broken home, which a massive amount of us come from broken homes. That's not an issue. That's not necessarily an issue. But if you're already co parenting from day one with someone you don't like. Right. That may end up being a bigger issue in the long run for you and that child. So is it fair to the child just because you want a kid? Well, unless you have to think about.
[00:24:58] Speaker C: That, too, let's acknowledge that you're tethered to that person for the rest of that child's life, or at least until that child is an adult. So, and I don't mean like 18 years old adult. I mean, we know that that prefrontal cortex in the brain does not fully develop until the age of 25.
[00:25:16] Speaker A: We all call our parents. I call my mom today, and I'll be like, how do I do this? And I'm 38. So, you know, I think, see, I'm like, we all reach out to our parents still, right? I'm like, you are a mom, Suzanne. Do you still reach out to your parents sometimes? Like, it's just normal.
[00:25:32] Speaker C: We all do.
[00:25:33] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:25:34] Speaker C: So it's normal parents or maternal figures, too.
[00:25:37] Speaker A: Yeah. Right. Whoever is your figure in your life. And. And that's, you know, but it sucks that that is part of romanticizing is the family aspect of it and the rushing into it, because women feel like we're on a timeline that men will never understand because they don't have that they. They can have kids forever and women can't. So we're constantly pushed, pressured into this timeline. And for women, I mean, it's shitty and it sucks, and it's one of those things that, like, if you're out there and you're in that situation, you're not alone.
There's a lot of people out there in it. Bri. Bri's already admitted that she's in that boat. I have a ton of friends in that boat. The best thing I can recomm is talking to somebody about it and not just like, your friends. Like, you need to talk to a licensed counselor who actually can talk to you about this. And in my personal opinion, you need to talk to a woman because you need to talk to somebody who actually would understand what it feels like to be a woman, because no man is going to understand that. I have a friend who. Her therapist is a man. And I'm like, that's great. But I also think you need to find a female therapist because he doesn't know what it's like to be 38 and want a child.
So.
And, like, deal with the birthing, you know, getting pregnant, those things, you know.
[00:26:53] Speaker D: Just men don't have to deal with.
[00:26:55] Speaker A: That's what I'm saying. Like, I'm. I'm to that point with my friends. I'm like, we start the compound, and all the friends who want to have kids, they have their kids, and then we all just raise them. And I'll be the one being like, I'm gonna teach them how to cuss. You're gonna be auntie.
I'm gonna be the. I'm gonna be the auntie that's like, all right, we're gonna scare the out of your mom and dress the kid up as a ghost and just, like, torture the parents like that. Yeah, that'll be my job on the compound. I'm just saying, like, I don't even want kids. But, like, in that realm, without having to deal with men's, I'd probably be fine. Raised helping raise kids with a bunch of women. That's what we're. That. That's what's happening here on Spill the Tea.
But yeah. So, like, anything else with romanticizing to, like, look out for or, like, tips on how to maybe, like, sit back and, I don't know, journal, write it down? Like, what are some tips for women to be like, maybe I need to step back for a second.
[00:27:49] Speaker C: Absolutely. Let me just comment on a couple other reasons why we psychologically get trapped stuck in this Trap. And then we'll move on to signs.
[00:28:00] Speaker E: That we're falling for potential and not the person.
[00:28:03] Speaker C: And then some of the consequences around romanticizing potential.
All right, Lauren, you brought this up when we first got on but cultural narratives in the media. So you talked about fairy tales. I would also say like rom coms, this idea of like a meant to be trope.
Culturally, we're raised on fairy tales, romcoms.
[00:28:27] Speaker E: The idea of the one or soulmate energy.
[00:28:32] Speaker C: And so our brains are primed to imagine this happily ever after happening and happening quickly.
[00:28:41] Speaker A: And how do we get past that?
[00:28:43] Speaker C: We have to challenge that. We have to recognize that, like, we can have a happy ending, but a happy ending is not going to look like going to a ball and then someone searching for the.
The shoe to fit.
[00:28:59] Speaker A: So a happy ending is more like a slow burn. If you're a reader, like not. Not a fast rom com romance. It is more of a long 700 page slow burn. Read a fantasy book. That's what that's. That's where. That's where your slow burns are. In fantasy books, there might also be dragons, but that's fine.
[00:29:18] Speaker C: Exactly. And then the other reason I wanted to talk about just really briefly, I know that you guys talk about attachment and attachment styles and just how anxious and avoidant pairings can fuel this ID idealization.
Attachment styles play a role. People with anxious attachment often idealize because they crave that closeness and security. They're also able to express vulnerability much more easily than an avoidant partner might. And this could look really attractive to an avoidant partner.
[00:29:58] Speaker D: And that, like, for me personally, because, I mean, this is something we've talked about before, like anxious attachment style, especially with my first and second husband, it was that fantasy of like, what is, you know, this is what our life can look like. This is what it's going to look like. You know, I romanticized every single bit of it. And then with the third one, I did the same in the beginning. And then when things started to really, like, click in my brain, it's like, no, something's off, something's wrong. And so now, like, even if I am talking to somebody, like, in the back of my mind, it's constantly like, I'm questioning everything.
[00:30:35] Speaker A: So, yeah, I think that's gonna be me too. Is questioning literally at this point, you have to prove to me that you're a good person because I'm gonna assume you're guilty. So you're. You're guilty until proven innocent in, in my dating world at this point. So and maybe that is the approach a lot of women need to start taking is, you know, it's not fun to have your guard up all the time. But let's go into it thinking that all men are trash and they're all cheaters and they gotta prove to you otherwise. Right.
[00:31:06] Speaker C: And I think some of it is like a Show me.
[00:31:09] Speaker A: Right?
Yeah. Not words.
Because men are good talkers. Men are good talkers. And even then some guys show in good actions, but over time, they'll get lazy. It'll stop. Like, it'll. It'll stop. I just read. I just read this book and it was crazy because this guy, like, he proposed to his girl. It took 15 months. He planned this. He took 15 months to plan this entire proposal.
And like, of course he's rich because it's a book. And so he, like, does all this crazy stuff and it gives her this whole night in this fantasy that she wanted. It was spicy. So it was a spicy. He gives her all this. And she was like, how? Like, you did all this for me and you've been planning it this long? And he's like, yeah, because you're worth it. And I think the premise of it is the point. Women, men used to, I want to say more than now, like, put in effort. And we need to find the men that actually do want to put in the effort for us. And now it takes effort from us too.
[00:32:09] Speaker B: Right.
[00:32:09] Speaker A: Like, as women, it takes effort from us as well. But when we don't feel taken care of or loved, then it's harder for us to be in our feminine, like, roles that we want to show our effort in those ways, like dressing up and looking good and everything. Everything else for these guys and, you know, doing anything else. Whatever your agreement is in the relationship for your. For your roles, like, it's hard for us to do that when we don't feel taken care of. Right. Effort is hard for men. So prove it. Make them prove it. That's the moral of that story. Make them prove it. Right.
[00:32:42] Speaker C: And some other things we can consider for breaking this, like breaking the cycle, are staying grounded in what is. So what again? What are they showing you? What are they showing you today? What are you seeing in the present? How are they showing up for you in the relationship?
Not what could be, but what is.
[00:33:07] Speaker A: Yeah, if they say they're going to make more money one day and actually help you pay bills, don't believe them. I will say, though, Bri always gets on to me because I say this a lot in a lot of Episodes. Listen, law enforcement, there's a reason that the divorce rate is so high. I said, do not date anybody in law enforcement. And the. Bree's like. And I'm like, And then, and then, sure, he had a girlfriend who knows how long, you know, and if there was, if she was the first one or the. Or the other ones, like, seriously, law enforcement has a stereotype or a reason, right? So just enter that with caution.
[00:33:40] Speaker D: So now I'm looking at animal shell, four legged dogs instead of two legged dogs.
[00:33:49] Speaker A: She's dating dogs.
She's on dating. She's on dating dogs.
I'm trying to get her to have a hobby. Instead. I'm like, let's, let's go like out and do things, Bri, like travel.
[00:34:00] Speaker C: But maybe like, for Bree, the value is companionship, right? From people, from animals. Companionship.
So I think, like, the bottom line of what I'm, I'm saying with like, that first point is like asking yourself, do I like who they are today and not just who I hope they'll become.
I think another thing to consider in breaking the cycle is to be curious around the now. So we're think we're talking about seeing, like, this potential future, right? Projecting our personal narratives, cultural narratives onto another person. But what does their lifestyle look like?
What values do they appear to be living by?
Are those aligned with what we want in the future?
Because if they look different than what we want, how are you going to get to that future? And is there real compatibility there?
[00:35:04] Speaker A: Yeah, I think that's hard too, is like, you know, letting, like. Because sometimes you're worried, like, am I letting this relationship go too early?
So, you know, do you just like, okay, have your non negotiables, as we like to call them, and then if they don't meet those non negotiables, like, get out, like, if they don't live in your city. Like, that's what I tell Bri. I'm like, I'm like, stop dating or stop trying to talk to men that don't live here. Because, like, you're not gonna leave because you have your family and your life here and you're not gonna leave.
And then the chances are they're not going to leave wherever they are either. Because we're all adults and we're kind of stuck in our, like, where we want to be at this point. And if they are willing to move, like, there's danger in that too, because they could hold resentment later towards you for making them move, even though they say that they were happy to do it. So it's like, you know, do you give up on a relationship too early? Or you know, do you just make like, here's my non negotiables. I'm not moving, I want children. Or for me, I don't want kids. Is. And I'm a traveler.
And if you're not okay with that, don't throw it back in my face years later saying, well, my therapist says that I've abandoned it because you travel.
First of all, you're not in therapy. Stop lying. And second of all, I told you on our very first date that I am a traveler and I travel by myself. I travel with friends, I travel for work, but I'll also travel with you and you need to be okay with that.
And then I found out that while I was in Guatemala, you're over at somebody's house because you're like.
And you're naked. But they. He lied. He lied. So I think that's part of it too is he seemed to meet my, he didn't want any more kids. He loved all the same stuff that I love and he was okay with traveling. The only thing he didn't meet was that he already had kids. And but I was like, okay, I can be okay with that because I live in Alabama and I live in the south and everybody has kids. Right? But you have to have your non negotiable.
[00:36:56] Speaker C: You do. And I think like using your example, Lauren, of travel, right, like early on in the relationship or in a future relationship, looking at like, do you guys talk about traveling together? Do you book trips together?
Do you talk about future places? You want to travel together, right? Like, so that is bringing the now into the future vision that you want for your life.
[00:37:27] Speaker A: Which to be fair, he did all that and he did travel. I mean, I got, I got him a passport and he tried. He traveled as long as I paid for it. So I think that's part of it too is are they willing to put in the effort on their end, like it shouldn't be all on you, but also because of my past trauma, personally, I think that's going to end up being a non negotiable for me is I want to share location. So like I share my location with my friends. Like, why can't I, like, I want to share it with my partner. And yeah, a lot of that, maybe CB seem like a control issue, but for me it's a peace issue.
I was cheated on so much whenever I traveled and even when I didn't travel, but especially when I traveled it turns out that's when he was doing a lot of his physical cheating. He was going over to women's houses. So now that's going to be like a, a sticking point for me going forward. So I think we have to have our non negotiables and actually stick with them. And if they don't meet that in the beginning, then we got to let it go.
Yeah.
[00:38:22] Speaker C: And I think, you know, I think every relationship is unique, but when I think about families with children, the whole family has location sharing on so your child can see where mom is, where dad is at all times. Mom and dad see where each other are.
So if that's like the future vision that you're going to for, then like, how do you, how do you have that conversation early on in the relationship?
[00:38:54] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. And that's one thing with his daughter. She and her moms, they all shared locations. And so she was asking me and her father to do the same thing, and I was for it, but he wouldn't download life for 360 for her because he doesn't even want his daughter to know where he is. So, you know, those are, those are definitely things to, like, look for in the future.
[00:39:17] Speaker C: Just a couple more points on, like, breaking the cycle pacing strategies. Slow it down, ladies.
Like, if it feels really intense emotionally, sexually, in the beginning, it is okay to say, like, I just need to take a beat and pause.
[00:39:37] Speaker A: And if they don't, then that's a red flag.
[00:39:39] Speaker C: Right? Right. Like, if you start hearing things like, I just feel so empty without you there, or just I miss you, or I don't know what to do without having you in my life. Right. Those are, those are some of those red flags.
[00:39:57] Speaker A: That sounds super manipulative. So, right, ladies?
[00:40:01] Speaker C: Right. It is okay to say, in any relationship, I just need a little bit of space and give that to yourself. And then the last one is just the reality testing. Like, if something feels off, talk with a trusted friend or your therapist if you're not comfortable talking to someone. Sometimes when we feel a lot of shame around a situation, it can be hard to share it, even with our therapist.
Maybe journal about it, but have a space where you can check yourself.
[00:40:39] Speaker A: Listen, trust your gut too. Like, that's, that's what it boils down to is trusting your gut. Like, you know, when something is off. And a lot of times I'll have women be like, I just feel like I'm being paranoid. And it's like, no, like, you're not. I have never had a woman say, I Think I'm being paranoid. And it turns out she was paranoid.
[00:40:56] Speaker E: Right. The bottom line is we need to look in our relationships, we need to look for patterns, consistency, and follow through.
[00:41:03] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. And take the. And. And make them take the time in the courting stage to do that. Because when you move fast, you move in together. You go too fast, you. You miss all those steps. Right. Which Bri and I are both. Yeah, Brie and I are both guilty of. I mean, Dick moved in within a month, so, you know, maybe I would have caught on to some things sooner had he not already moved in and then just was a constant presence there. So I just didn't see. See it. Like, he was able to be constant in my life because he lived with me. Right. Maybe if he wouldn't have been living with me, he wouldn't have been as constant. And then I would have been like, hey, something's going on.
[00:41:37] Speaker C: And this would. This is a really good example of.
[00:41:39] Speaker E: Where, like, a pacing strategy would have been helpful to say before he moved in. Say, like, okay, let me slow it.
[00:41:46] Speaker C: Down for a moment.
[00:41:48] Speaker E: Let me, like, take a beat.
Think about, like, would it look like if he moved in?
[00:41:54] Speaker C: What would it look like if we.
[00:41:56] Speaker E: Waited just another three months?
[00:41:59] Speaker D: And I think for me specifically, and this has proven to be true with almost every single one.
Well, as far as, like, dating is concerned. Well. And the last guy that I was married to after, like, six months or around that six month mark is when, like, their true colors are starting to come out.
Especially with this most recent one that I spoke to. It was about six months, Six or seven months. Somewhere in there, when things. It's like, okay, here come the red flags, because that person is finally showing their true color.
[00:42:29] Speaker A: Well, ladies, we're gonna try to not romanticize our relationship. This is not a fairy tale. But we can hope for a slow burn, which are actually more. They're better anyway. Like, slow burns are better. So just hope for slow burn. We're. That's what we're going for these days.
[00:42:45] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:42:46] Speaker E: A few key points to highlight as we're wrapping up.
When we're dating, it's easy to fall for the fantasy imagining who someone could be instead of focusing on the reality of who they are right now.
We do it because of chemistry, attachment patterns, the idea of happily ever after. I'm using air quotes here, but those stories. We've absorbed the red flags. You're more excited about the future than the present.
Stay in the present, ladies.
Otherwise we tend to overlook problems. Or we're waiting for. Change the fix. Slow it down.
Ask yourself, do I actually like who they are today?
Not tomorrow, not next month. Not who they could be and not the story that we've created. Look for consistency.
Focus on their actions, and stay grounded in what's real.
[00:43:46] Speaker C: Love the person in front of you, not their potential.
[00:43:48] Speaker A: And there's your quote for the day, ladies. Love. Love the person in front of you, not their potential. All right, well, thank you, Suzanne, for coming on, and we will definitely have you back. And, Bre, we'll see you next week.
[00:44:02] Speaker C: Sounds good. Always a pleasure.
[00:44:05] Speaker A: Thank you, Sam.
