Children Need Therapy Too

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign. [00:00:14] Speaker B: Welcome back to Spill the Tea. [00:00:15] Speaker A: HSV with Lauren and Bri. This episode is proudly brought to you by the law firm Ryan and Rouse. If you or a loved one have been injured or need legal help for changing family circumstances, contact the personal injury and family law attorneys at Ryan and rouse today at 256-801-1000 or visit them online at www.alabamalaw.com. when your future is on the line, don't go at it alone. [00:00:50] Speaker B: This episode is also brought to you by Bridge and Bloom, llc. You Bridge and Bloom Therapy Services is changing the way Madison county thinks about mental health. Co owners Kate and Ashley bring over 20 years of combined experience and a shared belief that healing happens through safety, compassion and connection. Their practice provides evidence based care for a wide range of needs, including trauma treatment with EMDR and brain spotting, support for children navigating high conflict situations, and counseling for couples working through challenges or learning to co parent. Each client receives care tailored to their story in a space where they can feel heard, supported and empowered. To learn more, visit bridgeandbloomllc.com or call 256-469-1877. Again, that's bridgeandbloomllc.Com or call 256-469-18 77. [00:01:44] Speaker A: All right, today we have Ashley Moore with us and she is a child trauma therapist and she's going to talk to us a little Toxic relationships and divorce can affect kids. So hi Ashley, thanks for coming. Good. All right. Tell us a little bit about you and what you do. [00:02:03] Speaker C: Well, so I am a licensed independent clinical social worker here in Madison County. I've been working with kids in trauma and teenagers and really people of all ages for about 10 years. And I specialize in people who have experienced any kind of trauma. And I also do a lot of work now with parents, caregivers and their children to help, you know, form attachments, strengthen attachments, foster parents, adoptive parents, but also divorced parents and teaching them ways to modify and help defiant behaviors, particularly children who have maybe oppositional defiance disorder, attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, those kinds of things. [00:02:47] Speaker A: So yeah, that sounds like a very interesting job. Also rewarding. [00:02:53] Speaker C: It is very rewarding. That's why we do it right. Nobody gets into therapy for the money typically. [00:03:00] Speaker A: So true. So when you work with kids, do you see families that are like going through divorce, struggle more or like is it, does it depend on, I guess, whether it's a healthy divorce or a non healthy divorce, like a toxic relationship situation? [00:03:14] Speaker C: Yeah. So I see kids for all kinds of reasons and who fall anywhere on that spectrum. Like we have our really great co parents who are, you know, parallel parenting and doing things together and then you have the absolute train wrecks that are fighting and getting very, very toxic. And I see kids who fall in that whole spectrum. I also get a lot of kids whose parents maybe got divorced years and years and years ago and they never really healed or, or were able to process that. And, and so a lot of my work, you know, some kids come to me and it's one parent who is convinced the other is causing some kind of harm. And some kids are just looking for a place to process. Maybe they have a really supportive caregiver who just wants them to have an opportunity to talk about what they're feeling and thinking. I have some parents come who want me to maybe testify and we have to do a little bit of redirection there. You know, that's not really my job. I have kids who, who come and I mainly end up working with the parents and maybe I'll refer them to a co worker of mine or somebody outside of my, you know, our practice to process their own traumas so that they can be the best parent that they can be. So, you know, there's, it's kind of a spectrum of toxicity and really healthy parenting. And I get kids from all, you know, all different spots. [00:04:34] Speaker A: Do the kids that come from the healthier co parenting situations, are they, I mean, obviously they're still in therapy, but do you, are they processing a little better? [00:04:42] Speaker C: I think that they probably are. And you know, each kid's different, depends on their age, different age. Children are wanting and needing different types of information when it comes to divorce and separation. So I would say, you know, if I can have a kid who comes in and they're getting a lot of that emotional support in home and so then they can really focus on like, hey, my life looks different now and this kind of sucks. That's a lot more productive and than us just dealing with the crisis of the week every week of I had to go to mom's and then I went to dad's and then there was fighting. So we can do more of that deeper healing when kids are being supported at home as well. [00:05:19] Speaker A: What would you tell parents to like, how to handle this? Like, I mean, obviously some of it seems common sense, right? Like don't bash each other to each other, you know, like to your child and stuff. Like a lot of it seems common sense. But then I know like in my situation as a step parent, as someone who doesn't want their own kids. It was a little different for me. And it was hard when Dick would talk about how his kids were a burden and he didn't really want them because then, especially in the beginning, it was hard for me to build bonds with them because it seemed like he didn't even want them. So, like, why are they in my space? And then it just, it just made that bond, like, harder to come and build between me and the kids as well. And then even to today, he has, we now know of several kids and I only knew of two, but now he's currently telling people he only has one. And I'm like, you're so he's constantly denying his children. I can't even imagine, like, how his kids are probably going to process this. But even like his daughter, who I am very close to, you know, she wants her dad's approval, but it's hard for her because now she's, she's older and now she knows the full truth of everything that her dad did to her. Not only her mom, but not her stepmom. So, you know, what would you tell parents, step parents, like, any advice when going through very traumatic, especially toxic relationships that ended in like, betrayal? Because that's hard when it ends in betrayal to not badmouth the other person. [00:06:52] Speaker C: It is very hard. You know, I always say that pride affects us in such crazy ways and drives so many negative things and ultimately traumas in our lives. And so I really always encourage parents to do their own healing first. And what I typically see is like one person healed and mourned and went through the really hard loss part in the relationship. And so when they get out, it's like a freedom type thing. And maybe they achieve that indifference a little bit earlier. And then we have the other parent who is still really feeling scorned and maybe upset. And those anger feelings, that's not always, but that's typically like a pattern that's kind of, you know, can be observed. And so I'm always telling people, like, go, go do your own healing. Get a therapist. I can help you find one. I can send you some numbers and really do that internal healing. But then when I'm working with parents, it's about finding that line of truth and how much truth is developmentally appropriate. How much truth can this kid handle? We're not going to just be able to sit kids down and make this exciting or happy or positive. Right. We can hopefully one day see the long term benefits of a separation or a divorce. But ultimately I can't you know, your parents aren't together anymore, and that really sucks. There is a grieving process that goes along with that for both parents and children. You know, little kids are just kind of like, what am I doing today? Am I going to be at Mommy's? Am I going to be at Daddy's? Who's picking me up? Then we have kids who are worried about, you know, I need my soccer uniform and my school supplies, and those are at mom's house. And is dad going to be able to go get those, or are they going to fight? Because I need to, you know, do an exchange of school supplies. And then we have teenagers who start to pick up on the little things of what's going on and who hurt who. And then that's assuming that kids haven't seen. Seen all of the dysfunction. And so, you know, we have to find that balance of truth of just mom and dad couldn't make this work. And we're hoping that this decision is going to lead to happier, fuller lives for everyone, as opposed to, I hate your dad, I hate your mom. They did this and all of the trauma that goes into it, because, you know, most of the time, kids know anyways. I think we need to give kids a little bit more credit. Like, they're so smart and they can. They can catch a vibe so quickly. And when we start lying to them, that is when kids start. Are filling in the gaps. And I don't know if that answers. [00:09:16] Speaker A: Your question, but my, my thing, because the lying to the kids thing, that was something I had talked to my stepdaughter's mother about. After everything happened, we. We had lunch and we talked for like three hours. And she was like, I don't want to hide who her father is from her anymore, because I think it's doing more harm than good. Because the whole time she was just like, putting him on this pedestal. And my concern was her being 16, is that either a, she'll end up with a man like her father, which I kid you not. I asked that man, I said, would you be happy if your daughter ended up with someone like you? [00:09:53] Speaker C: And he said, yes. [00:09:54] Speaker A: I'm like, really? You want. You want her to be. [00:09:56] Speaker C: And it goes back to the pride of man thing. [00:09:58] Speaker A: I was like, do you really want her to be with somebody who cheats on her with 20 plus women? But okay, if you say so and use her for money. But that's the thing he uses women for or use me for money. And my concern is, is that down the road, when that stops Working on other women. He's gonna come back to his daughter and he's gonna be like, you owe me. You're my kid. [00:10:18] Speaker C: Right. [00:10:19] Speaker A: Even though the whole time he complained about having to pay child support. And to her, like, to the point that he's like, I'm gonna get a cake while when you turn 19 and celebrate the fact that I don't have to pay anymore. [00:10:29] Speaker C: Oh, goodness. [00:10:29] Speaker A: So he's always made her feel like a bill. [00:10:31] Speaker C: Right. [00:10:31] Speaker A: And so I think that when her mom finally told her everything, and I think it was hard for her, but it also helped because it filled in all the gaps and all the things that she had been, like, thinking her father was. But he's not. So I just. I don't what age is appropriate to actually, you know, obviously you're not gonna say everything, but, like, to tell the truth, like, hey, your dad may not be this man that you think he is. Like, he uses people, he abuses people, you know, financially, emotionally. [00:11:04] Speaker C: I think it's really important from a young age to model really healthy boundaries. And this kind of goes both ways, right? Like, sometimes we have parents who are co parenting and they have to have very strict boundaries. Like, we don't share finances. We, you know, I keep a very, you know, big distance. Maybe that's for safety issues, maybe for. That's for personal healing. But it also goes to the other side of sometimes I have co parents who are like, we're best friends, and that ends up getting a little messy. And, you know, oh, we do all of these things together, and we are kind of almost still together and supporting each other, but we just live separately, which can be really confusing as well to kids because eventually somebody's gonna move on and that's gonna look a little different. So I think modeling healthy boundaries for our kids, even from a really young age, can be a positive, even if we're not quite tight telling them everything. For example, a kid who's five might be asking, why can't mom and dad both be at my birthday party? I want daddy at my birthday party. And as a mom, we might be thinking, wow, like, that's not that big of a deal. Of course we can be at the same birthday party, but ultimately that's kind of establishing this weird boundary of we do things and holidays together, and that's maybe not the most productive boundary to have. [00:12:17] Speaker A: So. [00:12:17] Speaker C: So I think starting really small, just modeling healthy boundaries, being honest, like, hey, mom and dad don't live together. We're not together anymore. We both love you so much. This Is your birthday party with me? This is your birthday party with dad. I love you. Have a great day. And then when kids get older, starting to talk to them a little bit more of, you know, hey, this is the wise way to handle being around your dad. And I know, you know that we. And I say dad just cause we're talking about that situation. But you know, we have a. We obviously couldn't make it work. And there's some things that mommy's learned that maybe can be helpful for you moving forward. [00:12:50] Speaker D: So I know in my case, I had two stepsons and their parents were recently divorced and the children, they. One was 8, 8 or 9 years old. The other one, he was a teenager. And so like, you know, 12, 13 years old. And so my question is they both had a lot of anger and a ton of anger based around their biological mother and the divorce and things of that nature. What are some tips that you would give to parents of children who have a lot of anger, who internalize it a good bit, but then it comes out as like outbursts every so often. And they're constantly fussing and fighting with each other and they know the things that the other parent has done, but they don't really want to talk about it. [00:13:37] Speaker C: We can't make kids talk about things. Right? They all have to do that at their own pace. [00:13:41] Speaker A: They all. [00:13:41] Speaker C: Some kids are able to do that really quickly and kind of just move on. And some kids really need time to process. Consistency as parents is so important and just. I can't say this enough modeling, like, this is a safe space where we can talk about how things make us feel in a respectful way. So if, you know, we're having an anger outburst, I don't want my parents saying, no, we don't do that. But more of a corrective. We can talk about that feeling. But maybe we're not going to yell or hit or destroy or whatever this looks like. On the opposite side of that, maybe more of it's okay to have these anger feelings, but we're not going to shut ourselves in our room for hours or days at a time and not talk about things. We eventually have to come back together and say what we're feeling. Kids feel anger in different ways than grownups do. And it's going to manifest in different ways than it does with grownups. So also having like a therapist or an outside party they can talk to can be really helpful, but just, you know, finding time to connect with them and acknowledge, like, this is really hard. This is not how any of Us expected life to go, but we have to move on. You know, best case scenario for kids is to think that both of their parents are superheroes and to think that both of their parents love them equally. And if we as parents who are going through a separation or divorce can help maintain that thought, that's the best case scenario for our kids. As long as there are no immediate risk factors. Right. And I'm talking very generally about the average child going through a divorce. We're not talking about those trauma situations, those really big risk factors where maybe a DHR call needs to be made. We're just talking about, you know, typical kids who are in a toxic environment, having parents support them, listen to them and, and acknowledge like, you know what? Maybe I didn't handle things the best with your dad, mom, whoever. Mom makes mistakes. I'm trying to learn. I'm trying to be a better mom for you. That's why life looks different. Now, what will help you feel a little bit better? Do you need a minute? And like, that's okay, right? It's okay for our kids to learn to take a second and not just say everything that comes to mind. Because we're also dealing with kids who don't understand long term consequences, have no ability to fully grasp the entire situation based on, on their age and things like that. And so just finding a, modeling that behavior. If we talk about our feelings, we, we don't hold them in. But also the expectation in this home is that we're respectful, we address things, and we don't hold a bunch of stuff in. [00:16:12] Speaker D: What about for the parents who maybe were super involved with their children their entire lives and then all of a sudden one day they're just gone. Would you still recommend telling those children how wonderful the other parent is? Completely honest? [00:16:25] Speaker C: No, I don't want to lie to kids. Right, right. So, you know, there's a, there's a space for just saying like, I don't know why your dad's not here, I don't know what's happening. And I love you and I'm sorry that that's really hard. And it's okay for you to feel all of these feelings here in this home, but I think the problem comes when we're either super bashing, like, oh, you know, dad's such a deadbeat, he doesn't love you, he's not coming around, he never loved any of us, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Right. And the other side of, you know, oh, well, maybe he's gonna call tomorrow knowing full well he might not call tomorrow. So just addressing like, yeah, this really sucks. It probably, you know, I understand that it makes you feel sad when dad is supposed to call and he doesn't, but also maybe not having that expectation as well. You know, if, you know, dad's not gonna make his nightly seven o' clock phone call, maybe not telling kid, like, hey, go grab the phone. Your dad's supposed to call at 7 and making it a more, you know, I'll let you know if he does call type thing. You know, we can't. I always tell parents we can't put lipstick on a pig. Like, it's just unfortunate, right? Like, we have to be really honest and, and just acknowledge, like, this does really suck. I see this a lot in teen girls I work with, especially not to be too stereotypical, but when they maybe are living more with mom and do the visitation with dad and that feeling of just like, my dad doesn't, like, love me by, dad wasn't here. And then when we started to get into it, it's mom was maybe a little bit more hurt and expected dad to be around more, and he wasn't. And we weren't, we weren't honest about those expectations. And that leads to a lot of hurt down the road. [00:18:05] Speaker A: So I'm still really close with his daughter. And I think that's something that was hard because when everything happened, it was like, I don't know if I can be close to you because, like, it's. I'm hurt, right? Like, you know, I love that man. I said vows. I want to spend the rest of my life with this man. To find out he was betraying me the whole time and lying to me the whole time is hard. And so one thing I was always very honest with her about was mental health. Because I've been in therapy for eight years. I love therapy. It's never going to change. And so I would tell her, like, it's okay to go to therapy, it's okay to be on medicine. Like, it's okay to need the help or whatever you need. And that right at the end, when everything was spiraling, her mom had asked if she could come over one day. And I was like, yes, but I'm going to be honest with you. I'm. I'm spiraling. Like, I'm spiraling today. And I was like, so she can come, but we're just going to be lazy and lay on the couch because I can't. I don't have the mental capacity to, like, do anything else. And like, I was honest with her. And she was just like, what did dad do? And I was just like. I was like, it's. You know, it's hard because you're just like, I don't know. I can't. I don't know what to tell you. Like, I can't make him love me type situation. And that was the last time she was at the house before I caught him on the date having the affair. And so we've worked through, like, a lot of stuff. Like, I went to her baptism, and then he didn't go, and he was mad that I ended up talking to her. And her. His father and stepmother were there, and we all talked for the first time because he kept us apart part on purpose. And that's when I found out about the third kid, and he was mad about that. So he was like, you can't talk to her anymore, and, like, cut her off for me. So, like, on Valentine's Day, I sent her, like, I love you, Happy Valentine's Day, and got nothing back. And. And I saw it didn't get delivered, and I was like, okay, so I'm not allowed to talk to her again. Luckily, you know, now after her mom and I talked, we're able to talk. And we went to dinner the other day. And even then, like, I try. I try not to talk about her dad with her, but I think she wants to, too, because I think she's still struggling, too. And it's one of those things where, like, I just let her bring it up. [00:20:09] Speaker C: I think that's great. [00:20:10] Speaker A: Okay. I was like. Because it's hard. [00:20:11] Speaker C: So I totally think, like, letting kids know this is hard for me. And it goes back to that modeling piece. Like, I'm setting a boundary for myself of this is not really the most healthy place for me to be emotionally. And I love you so much, but I might take you to dinner next week or something instead of. Instead of. And I encourage parents a lot of times, and this can be very hard because, like, we love a tradition, and the calendar rules our life, and we want to have all of these perfect things. But I encourage parents all the time to be creative. Like, who cares if every other year you celebrate Christmas morning on December 23rd instead of December 25th so that you can be with your kids? Who cares if you, you know, maybe celebrate a weekend before, the weekend after? It's. It's the sentiment of, like, we're being flexible so we can all be together. But, you know, I'm putting a boundary in place so that I'm not challenging My mental health or causing a situation that could be volatile. You know, we want, I'm sure you want her to be able to see that. If you feel uncomfortable, you just need to speak up and say, this is really weird for me. I'm gonna maybe pass. [00:21:15] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:21:15] Speaker C: But, you know, letting her bring those things up as, you know, hey, I really want you there. It's gonna be really important and it's okay, you know, life doesn't have to be sunshine and roses all the time. It's okay to acknowledge, like, this is just really unfortunate. One day she's going to have a high school graduation, maybe a college graduation, maybe a marriage, maybe children, maybe not. Right. But the point is big milestones that might look different because it's not super common for all of the parents, all of the co parents, all of the step parents to be in the same room and live happily ever after. So life's going to look different. It's okay to be hopeful and excited and, you know, the whole, oh, two Christmases, his type thing. Right. It's okay to be silly and joke about it, but it's also okay to grieve what we don't have anymore. When I'm assessing a child for trauma and you know, divorce is trauma, right. If you look at the aces, the adverse childhood experiences, divorce is on there and we have to just look at what was the trauma. But how does this impact my future and how does this impact how I see the world or the child? How does this impact their future and how they see the world? And that's what matters to me. [00:22:21] Speaker D: So I think in my situation, there were two stepchildren, as I've, you know, previously mentioned, and whenever their dad and I got divorced, he cut it off very, very quickly. I have not had any contact with these children since then. And I'd grown very close to them to where the youngest one was accidentally starting to call me mom. And so whenever we went through a round where they knew we were having some trouble, they knew that he was not in a good place mentally. But whenever we did get divorced, I had no closure with these kids. So how does that affect children? And what is some advice that you would give to step parents who are maybe in my situation, do you recommend that they just go no contact with those children as well? If you're in no contact with their parent, what does that look like? [00:23:07] Speaker C: It's really, really hard because when you're a step parent and then there's this, you know, big separation if you don't have any, leaves legal Access to those kids, you have to respect what their parents are saying and doing. And my only hope is just that eventually there will be some kind of reconciliation. [00:23:24] Speaker A: Like for me, her mom and I now get along and well, we always got along. We never had any right. But at least now it's like my daughter's allowed to talk to you. Like her mom made that decision because she was like, he doesn't get to make this decision when he's not even in her life. Right. And hasn't seen her. [00:23:40] Speaker C: I think no contact is really hard for kids. But you know, so if you're making that decision, I would say like, if no, let's try to be grown ups and give ourselves, you know, the space to be available to kids if they have questions or need things. But if the parent is the one that has, you know, those rights, those decision making abilities and they are deciding that you have to be no contact, there's not much that you can do. Right. I'm never going to encourage an adult to be sending like sneaky text messages or Facebook things to, to try to access children. So we just have to, you know, respect those boundaries that the other person's putting in place and hope that they're providing the emotional support that they need. But if you're in charge of that decision, kids are going to fill in the blanks. Right. When they don't know the truth or at least have an answer, they're going to make something up that makes sense. So if we're just a go, no contact, you know, if they decide, oh, so and so hates me and be write a letter, maybe send a text, maybe tell your dad or mom or whoever, at least giving an option and then letting the kid decide if they want to do it or not do it can be really helpful. [00:24:42] Speaker D: Okay, so. And I think for a lot of parents, they don't really know where to start when they notice that their kids are having trouble, you know, when their parents have gone through a divorce and things like that. Would you recommend that maybe they could start with like the school counselor? [00:24:59] Speaker C: Where should they start? I think it just depends on what the needs are. Right. So I don't see any. You know, school counselors can be really good for people who maybe are working full time, have trouble getting kids where they need to go. If you can afford and have access to a private therapist, that can be really great too. Having a therapist, obviously who works with kids and can say this is developmentally appropriate, this is not really developmentally appropriate. These are the things we to need need to look for and assess for can be really, really helpful. So, you know, some kids know their school counselor, and that's really positive. Here in Madison county, there's some really great. The Enrichment center and the Nova center are in schools, and they have all of the training of, you know, regular therapists, regular outside therapists, and so they can be a really great resource. [00:25:44] Speaker A: So we talked about, like, how to set boundaries for kids, how it's okay to obviously age differences, what's good to actually say to them. But I think the number one thing we can take away from this, from this episode is therapy is great. We say that all the time. But, like, even kids need therapy. And I think that's something parents don't realize, because I think a lot of parents take offense sometimes. You know, like, almost like, I'm giving them a great childhood. Why would they need therapy, right? And it's like, well, because every kid needs. Every kid deals with something because it may not. It may not be the parents. It could be the aunt and uncles, the neighbors, the bullying at school. Like, whatever the case is, every kid goes through something. And I think parents forget that they were kids once who also probably went through something. And. But it was that mentality of, pull yourself up by your bootstraps. [00:26:33] Speaker C: Well, and as a therapist, I'm gonna let you know when I think your kid's ready to graduate, if I think they need to come once a week, twice a month, once monthly, whatever that looks like. I'm gonna let you know if I think. Think your kid's just good in coping and has the support they need to. [00:26:48] Speaker A: To. To. [00:26:49] Speaker C: To live a healthy life. I kind of see myself as, like, I'm trying to coach this kid on how to cope, how to move forward and eventually pass the coaching baton off to the parent or the caregiver or whoever's in charge. And so if I have a kid who's got really supportive caregivers and they just need a couple months maybe to process, put things in. In boxes in their mind, and then they're able to go out into the world. That's the goal. And, you know, ethically, I'm trying to get kids there, to maintenance, to healthy maintenance on their own with the support of their caregivers. So, you know, it's important for parents to know that. I also want my parents to know that, like, if mom's bringing kid to therapy, but dad has joint custody, I have, you know, the duty to speak and inform and communicate with both parties equally. And I get that a lot. Parents Bringing kids and not wanting the other parent to know. And that's not great either, because my job is not to pick a side. My job's to support that kid. And if I think there's some inconsistency in the homes, multiple homes, and me communicating can be helpful. That's what's best for that kid. Do a lot of psychoeducation with parents of, like, you know, and I have background as a forensic interviewer, so my job is not to. I'm not here to get forensics on. On what's going on. I'm not here to spy and figure out is dad doing things that you don't like and vice versa. My job is to support this child and me communicating and providing the same psycho education to both parents is what this kid needs. And sometimes parents don't like that so much. And so it's my job to kind of be a big girl and say, this is how we're gonna handle it. And that's the not so fun job, but it's what's best for that kid. And so, you know, the therapist you're dealing with should have the knowledge to let you know if they think your kid's ready to graduate, but also to involve caregivers and people in an appropriate way. [00:28:40] Speaker A: Do you have any, like, bulletins or, like, information like this or any links to, like, classes for parents or, like, step parents? Because I know, like, for me, being a step parent, that was hard. Like, I don't. I had. No. [00:28:52] Speaker C: I didn't. [00:28:53] Speaker A: I didn't know anything about raising kids right. [00:28:55] Speaker C: So the National Child Traumatic Stress Network puts out a lot of really helpful information on, like, what developmentally appropriate things behaviors are for children, how to talk to your kids about seeing safety, that all of those things are really important. I'm a big fan of parents having some kind of legal standing court order that's going to. And I know that doesn't really, you know, go to what you're saying, but so that they can go back to the paper when they're. When things get dodgy and they need a little bit of guidance, honestly, you know, in therapy, my job is to teach parents a lot of things. And so, you know, books like the Whole Brain Child by Dan Siegel. He's fantastic at explaining parts of our kids and what they need to feel safe and loved and whole. No drama. Discipline. I love to give that to divorced parents for all ages because it's kind of teaching that connection piece before we discipline our kids. And that can be really helpful as far as teaching them, teaching parents, even if they're not on the same page. You know, if I can provide the same psycho education to both parents, and then they can, you know, independently be raising these whole kids, that's kind of my ideal thing. So any. Anything like that can be really helpful. [00:30:11] Speaker A: Well, thank you, Ashley. Thank you for coming, and we'll definitely would love to have you back. We'll see you next week, Bri. [00:30:17] Speaker C: See ya. [00:30:24] Speaker A: Sam.