Episode Transcript
Welcome back to Spill the T HSC with Lauren and Bree.
This episode is proudly brought to you by the law firm Ryan and Rouse. If you or a loved one have been injured or need legal help for changing family circumstances complex, contact the personal injury and family law attorneys at Ryan and rouse today at 256-801-1000 or visit them online at www.alabamalaw.com. when your future is on the line, don't go at it alone.
And we're back again with Teresa Williams, LPC and today's episode.
We're going to talk about forgiveness, which is hard.
So I'm excited for this. Take it away.
[00:01:02] Teresa: Well, thank you so much for allowing me to come back. A portion of the podcast for me is psycho educational. It is not a substitute for therapy. It does not constitute a therapist client patient relationship. If you do need mental health counseling, please seek someone out. If you are in crisis, please stop this podcast, call 911 or go to your local emergency room.
[00:01:29] Lauren: So forgiveness is something that, especially as someone who goes to the church, it's something that we're told, well, you just, you know, you just gotta forgive em, just forget. And it, and it's almost like this blanket statement. And I'm always like, it's not that easy. Like people want it to seem like it's an easy thing to do, just forgive them. And I, it's not that easy. So let's talk about it.
[00:01:54] Teresa: Well, yes, the Bible says that we need to forgive people, right? But let's talk just a second or two, what forgiveness is and what it's not because it gets a bad rap and people will throw it out. You know, you have to forgive him, right? Well, you will eventually. And it's a process.
So let me, let me start there and I'm going to read this list real quick and then we can go back and dig through some of them. So let me tell you what forgiveness is not.
It is not a feeling. So I know that may be a shocker. It is not forgetting the pain.
It is not pretending that you were hurt.
It is also not condoning what the other person did to you.
It is not about trusting the offender, is not relieving the person of their responsibility. It is not about being weak, but about reclaiming the power to choose.
So let's talk about. That's a. I'm going to go through the list of what it is and we can dive in. So what is forgiveness? First of all, it's a process. And Lauren, you talked about it. Forgiveness is Hard. And it's not a one time event. It's not something that you're going to wake up and that you're going to pray and all magically, forgiveness is there. It's a moment by moment, sometimes second by second process. Okay. And it's a personal decision.
And also forgiveness is for us, not them.
[00:03:30] Lauren: I think that, at least for me is one of the hardest things is forgiveness being for me. Because it's, it's hard to separate. Like, I'm never going to be okay with what he did.
[00:03:42] Bree: Right.
[00:03:42] Teresa: Nor should you.
[00:03:43] Lauren: Right. But then it's like, but then why, why should I forgive him? Like, it's. I think that's what it is. It's a hang up with the forgive him thing. Like, I don't want to forgive him because he doesn't deserve forgiveness.
So I think that's where I get hung up.
[00:03:58] Teresa: Okay, so let me ask you a question. You may not like me right now.
Okay. So are you perfect?
[00:04:06] Lauren: No.
[00:04:06] Teresa: Are you sure? Because if you are, if you're God, I've got a lot of questions. Okay. Okay. So in other words, now we're not comparing apples to apples.
[00:04:15] Bree: Right.
[00:04:16] Teresa: But you've done some things in your life you're not so proud of. That's hurt. I'm sorry. Hurt other people.
[00:04:22] Lauren: Oh, yeah. Oh, oh, I'll own that. I've heard a ton of people.
[00:04:25] Teresa: Okay, all right.
[00:04:26] Lauren: People, I think deserve it. But yeah, I've definitely.
[00:04:28] Teresa: Okay, so when we say that forgiveness is for us and not them. So when you hold on to the bitterness, the anger, the resentment, basically what you're doing is you're tying yourself to them, to the past.
It's like tying a rope around you and not being able to move forward.
[00:04:49] Lauren: Yeah.
Yeah. And I think that's.
I keep thinking like, as if certain things will change, then I would be able to like move past it. But then it's just like these things keep happening, right? Like I like, don't. Can't pay a bill or something because he didn't, he didn't give me what.
[00:05:12] Bree: He owed me Right.
[00:05:13] Teresa: Today.
[00:05:14] Lauren: Then that's like. But then it, it's there, it triggers it because it's like, oh, here we go again. Like, he's still affected me even today. Or, you know, I'm gonna get on a dating app for the first time in months and see, and he's one of the first people that pops up. Like, that's a trigger. Yeah, like that. And because he's always on there and he's always on all of them. And, you know, things like that, that. That happen, then it's just, like, immediately.
[00:05:40] Bree: Right.
[00:05:40] Lauren: The anger's right back.
[00:05:41] Bree: Right.
[00:05:42] Lauren: So, like, I mean, most my days, I'm not actually just sitting here brewing in anger. I don't have time. I'm busy.
I get that too much going on.
But whenever something like that happens, that's when my anger pops up.
[00:05:56] Bree: Yeah.
[00:05:56] Lauren: Is whenever. It'll, like, I'll be fine. And then all of a sudden, it'll be like, oh, I have this other bill I gotta pay. Or when I found out that he had left his cell phone on my account. Like, the actual physical phone.
[00:06:11] Bree: Yep.
[00:06:11] Lauren: That, like, I didn't find that out till March. So that was six months later. And I found out I've been paying $50 a month for the physical bone that he had an affair with. Oh, my God. Yep. Like, again, that just, like, triggers it all over again. Or when you find out there's another kid and, like, I'm sorry. There wasn't just three. There's nothing like, what are we doing? Like, it's just like, how many kids am I gonna find out about?
[00:06:34] Teresa: But wait, there's more. There's more, right?
[00:06:37] Lauren: So I think that's the thing. It's like, it's hard to forgive when I keep getting.
[00:06:40] Teresa: Yeah. And then in time, Lauren, all of those things will iron themselves out. And that's what you gotta remember today. It's fresh. And, yes, you do get hit. And. And I. And I hate to say this, there will always be triggers, but they won't be to this degree.
[00:06:56] Bree: Right.
[00:06:56] Teresa: They're not going to be so fresh that you're going to have a reaction. Eventually you'll go, whatever.
But not today.
[00:07:05] Speaker D: He's an asshole. I forgive him, but I won't forget it.
[00:07:08] Lauren: Yeah, well, Breeze, I feel, like, a lot better at forgiveness than me because she even, like, she forgives. She does not talk bad about her, especially the last six. And I'm like, have you ever seen the meme where you drive by the guy's house playing a song out the window? Yeah. I want to do that to him so bad, and she won't let me. But she's. She's much better at that than me. But for me, it's just like, I feel like they're getting away with something.
[00:07:31] Teresa: But are they? Let's. Let's talk truth.
[00:07:33] Lauren: Yeah.
[00:07:34] Teresa: So are they really getting by with anything?
[00:07:38] Speaker D: They're still sitting in all the shit they created for themselves, and they're gonna.
[00:07:41] Teresa: Keep doing that, you know? Here's the thing. When I talked. We talked last time about anger. And when we don't forgive and we carry all of that, we're only hurting ourselves. Hurting ourselves physically, mentally, and spiritually.
[00:07:56] Lauren: Yeah. Do you have. I mean, so what tools do you have or do you recommend that we use to help ourselves get to that point?
You know, like, I can pray about it, but then I also am praying to God for things I shouldn't be praying to God for.
[00:08:14] Teresa: Well, he already knows your heart, so.
[00:08:16] Lauren: Always like, hey, God, I love you.
[00:08:19] Teresa: It's me again.
[00:08:20] Lauren: It's me again. If you could really make that Agent Wheeler swerve, it'd be great.
[00:08:23] Bree: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:08:26] Teresa: Well, again, it's a process, and you're just working through all of it. And you. You know, if somebody tells you that you need to forgive right away, humanly, you can't do that.
Wish.
[00:08:42] Lauren: And that's.
[00:08:43] Speaker D: It's interesting that you say that, because I've been married three times, and with my last ex husband, I felt like I had some anger. Like, it was very. It didn't last very long, maybe a few weeks. But I felt like from the time that everything happened, like I had already forgiven him. And I don't know if it's because I loved him that much that I was truly there to work on things and that I forgave him for all the crap that happened, but it's a weird feeling because I've never felt like that before. Like, first and second ex husbands.
[00:09:14] Teresa: Yeah.
[00:09:14] Speaker D: Like, I'm pissed for a good little while, but this last one, it's like I almost immediately forgave him, and that's never happened. It was really weird.
[00:09:23] Bree: Okay.
[00:09:24] Teresa: I won't ask the question. What did that look like to forgive him immediately?
[00:09:30] Speaker D: I don't really. It was like I was angry for a short period of time.
Lauren is burning a hole in the side of my face with her eyes.
[00:09:39] Teresa: Just so everybody knows what I'm laughing at.
[00:09:43] Speaker D: Yeah. Like, I was extremely sad and hurt, but it's like, I understood that there were children involved and he needed to get his head right. And granted, was still pissed that he drugged me through all the crap that he did, and he had no right to do that, but it's like I understood that he really needed to get his head in a space where it needed to be healthy.
[00:10:09] Bree: Okay.
[00:10:10] Speaker D: Does that make any sense?
It could have been the kids.
[00:10:14] Teresa: So if I'm understanding you correctly, you put yourself in his shoes.
[00:10:19] Lauren: Yeah.
[00:10:20] Bree: Okay.
[00:10:21] Teresa: Is that normal down the road? Yeah.
[00:10:24] Speaker D: Oh, well, it was Immediate.
[00:10:25] Lauren: Just about.
[00:10:25] Teresa: Okay. And I'm not gonna psychoanalyze here, but I'm being funny, you know, but you loved and you cared about him, and that's the other side of this coin. If. And I'm gonna go here just a second. Just because you find out somebody had an affair doesn't mean you stuck. Stop loving them and stop carrying them. It's not like the light switch. You can turn it on and off. God didn't design us that way. So I'm guessing you really love deeply, right?
[00:10:50] Speaker D: I do.
[00:10:51] Teresa: Yes. And so you're able to put yourself in his shoes.
That makes sense.
Here it comes.
[00:11:02] Lauren: See, I loved so deeply that I was so angry, because for me, I think I could never say so in Bree's situation, it's a little different because we don't know for sure what happened, and we don't know for sure there was actual betrayal and stuff. He was just. The things he made that happened in her relationship just wasn't normal or okay by any means.
[00:11:23] Bree: Okay.
[00:11:23] Lauren: But with me, like, I would have never, ever done what he did to me to him.
[00:11:31] Bree: Right.
[00:11:31] Lauren: So, like, I could never put myself in his shoes ever, because I never would have done that. Like, I. I loved him so much, and I was in it for the long haul, even though he had issues, and it wasn't perfect necessarily. And I would talk to my parents and my therapist about it, and I'd be like, but I said I do to this man, and I really want to make this work.
[00:11:46] Bree: Yeah.
[00:11:47] Lauren: So I'm going to make it work. Unless I find out there's infidelity.
[00:11:50] Bree: Right.
[00:11:50] Lauren: And there was infidelity. So then it's like, okay, well, I'm not going to make it work. But, I mean, there's still a part of me that loves him because I can't. Like you said, you can't shut it off.
[00:11:58] Teresa: No, you can't.
[00:11:59] Lauren: And he's an awful human. And I still. There's a part of me that still loves that man, and. But I would never take it back.
[00:12:06] Teresa: Yeah. That's two different things.
[00:12:07] Lauren: Yeah. I would never, like, go back and deal with it, but. But I was about to. In December, there was. I was so close, because at that point, I only knew about one person.
[00:12:16] Bree: Yeah.
[00:12:17] Lauren: And he was coming around again, and it was him treating me. He started buying me things, like trying to do the whole, like, slowly sprinkle and love bomb and, like, try to come back in and thank God for the friend that took me out on my birthday and told me about are we dating the same guy? Because I probably would have took him back and then would have found out later that he was still lying the whole time.
[00:12:37] Speaker D: Had you come to a point of forgiveness at that time?
[00:12:39] Lauren: I think I had, because I didn't know about the 20. I think it was. I don't know that it was fully forgiveness or if I was just sad and wanted my life back. Because those are two different things.
[00:12:50] Teresa: They are.
[00:12:51] Lauren: I think I was just really sad and I missed him in our life and probably the comfortability of it. Yeah, starting over sucks. I knew the path it was going to take, and it just sucks.
And so I think that it was probably more of that than forgiveness. But then when you find out that it was a bunch of betrayal and it wasn't just one person.
[00:13:14] Bree: Right.
[00:13:14] Lauren: And the extent of the betrayal, then it was. That's when the anger.
[00:13:20] Bree: Right.
[00:13:20] Lauren: Clicked in.
[00:13:21] Teresa: And so we call that death by a thousand cuts. And when there's betrayal, when I work with couples, and I'll ask this question, is there anything else you need to get it all out on the table? And we call it the trinkle down effect that they'll jet. They are so worried that because this big bomb has come off and if they really come out and tell the truth, then they're going to hurt their partner more. But what they don't realize that it's hurt after hurt after hurt.
[00:13:50] Lauren: 5,000 cuts. And I just, you know, so we're all aware. Because if I'm. I'm nothing if not a swiftie. Yes.
[00:13:56] Bree: Yeah.
[00:13:57] Lauren: Yeah. I relate to that fully. So then how.
How do I or anyone in my shoes work towards forgiveness? I mean, obviously, like, I'm in therapy. I talk to professionals.
[00:14:07] Bree: Right.
[00:14:08] Lauren: I do that aspect of it. And it definitely helps. I go to church.
[00:14:11] Bree: Yeah.
[00:14:12] Lauren: Which definitely helps. And honestly, I've actually, I've missed the past few weeks because I've been traveling for work and I've noticed, like, it's. It affects me not going.
[00:14:20] Bree: Yeah.
[00:14:21] Lauren: So, like, I actually miss church. Like, I need. I've noticed the positive effect that it has for me personally.
And then, like, what is it, just time?
[00:14:29] Teresa: Yes, it is time, but it's also working through all the stuff that's underneath, and it's like the iceberg, you know, you only see what's on the top and there's all these things underneath. And, you know, I will tell you my own personal story. You know, he had an affair with a co worker, and I had gone to travel for work and was gone for the week. And she came in and stayed at my house while I was gone. She put her clothes in my closet, even let her drive my car.
[00:14:58] Speaker D: Her clothes were in your closet?
[00:15:00] Teresa: Yes, in my drawers as well.
[00:15:02] Speaker D: Did you burn it?
[00:15:04] Teresa: No. I found out through hired in a private investigator. So I had videos and pictures.
[00:15:09] Lauren: So speaking of that is another question we got on the Facebook group.
[00:15:13] Bree: Yeah.
[00:15:14] Lauren: Was how much does a private investigator cost? So since you had one, do you mind sharing how much?
[00:15:19] Teresa: Well, that's been a little while ago. So it's going to vary between, you know, who you hire and how much surveillance you want done and what kind. For me, you know, he had no idea. He. I left on a Sunday morning, and she was there Sunday evening. And I had the private investigator do videos and pictures, and so I had what I needed. So it's going to vary. Do you want them followed? What do you want? And there's some reasonable people in town, what I would tell you, if you're going to hire somebody, you know, get some references, talk to some people that's hired, because there are some that will take advantage of you in any field, but, you know, ask. But it's reasonable. It's not out of the picture. So, you know, I knew that he had done this, and for me, it was beyond betrayal because your home for a woman is your sacred place. And he could have taken her to a hotel, he could have done million different things, but he chose for her to be in my home with my things and my car closet. Yes. I mean, come on. And. Okay, I got to say this. And my dog was there, too. I know she touched the dog. She did.
Yeah. Sorry. Okay. So.
Yeah. So betrayal, you know, on the degree, and you know, it. So I look back on it and you talking about sort of same thing that you experienced, Lauren. Financial issues, things I didn't know. It was just one thing right on top of the other.
And did I have a right to be angry and not forgive him? Well, yeah. We weren't even divorced, and he was out in public with her. He went to his partner's son's wedding arm in arm, and we were still married. And, you know, there's so much. And so how do I. How did I get to forgiveness? I know you're going. You guys are waiting for that, right?
[00:17:22] Lauren: Well, that's just it. Like, how did you. How long did it take? And how did you get there?
[00:17:26] Teresa: It's a process. Like I say, it did not come overnight, but as things worked themselves out, like, even after we were divorced, he didn't do some of the things that were supposed to be done on a timely manner in the divorce decree. So as time went on and I realized, and this was really hard for me, is that when I asked you that question about if you are perfect, you know, as I was praying for my own situation, because the pain is just unbearable, right. You lose everything. What am I going to do with it? And I couldn't pray for him.
[00:18:04] Bree: Right.
[00:18:05] Teresa: Because that just wasn't going to happen. But God reminded me that he forgave me of my sins when I did not deserve it by any stretch of the means. And my comeback was, yeah, God, thank you. But I didn't do what he did. I did not. I've never done that.
[00:18:21] Bree: Right.
[00:18:22] Teresa: Nor would I. I would have not. And God reminded me that he doesn't see sin the way we see it.
At the foot of the cross. It's. It's level and sin is sin. While some have more consequences than other, it's still sin. And that was really hard for me to swallow, but it was truth. And it's not about me letting him off the hook.
It's about me finding freedom and peace and being able to move forward without holding on to all of. And I'm gonna say it like this, this shit in the past.
[00:18:57] Lauren: Yeah. I think that's what's gonna be really, really hard for me.
And that's the part I gotta work on the most, is the letting go for myself.
[00:19:05] Bree: Right.
[00:19:06] Lauren: Because I'm such a. I mean, even in, even with my, like, career, like things that I've chosen for myself, I'm very much a fan of justice.
[00:19:13] Bree: Yeah.
[00:19:13] Lauren: And I love to see justice being served. And so. And I think that if you're a man or woman who betrays your partner, you should have some kind of justice. Like something needs to happen. Like you need to be punished in some way.
Because you, you don't deserve to just be happy right now. Like you hurt somebody, you pay for hurting somebody.
[00:19:34] Teresa: But let me ask you a question. On the outside, they look like they're happy. Maybe they married the person they had an affair with.
[00:19:40] Bree: Right.
[00:19:41] Teresa: And they've got the big house and you're in an apartment and you're going, oh, God, this is not fair. How can this be? It looks like on the outside that they have the best life and they have done this to me. But are they really happy?
But they are walking and living and caring what they've done. I don't have to carry that. So we think that they're living this wonderful life. Because we don't see what goes on behind closed doors either.
[00:20:10] Lauren: Yeah. I think that part's just hard sometimes too, because it's like if they didn't care enough about you. Right. To. Because they betrayed you, they didn't care about enough about you in the first place. So they obviously don't care about other people anyway. So, like, do they even. Are they carrying it because they seem to not care? They seem to. They didn't care about you. They probably don't care that they hurt you. They probably are. Like, it may not.
I feel like they're not carrying the baggage. Like they're not. They're not actually dealing with what they caused or what they did to somebody because they.
[00:20:34] Teresa: How do you know that?
[00:20:36] Lauren: Well, I think because only psychopath could deny your children and then also have affairs with 20 plus women. But that's my thing. It's like, right. Train that many people because he was betraying all of them, too. He was telling all these other women that he cared about them. He was basically living with this woman in March, whenever he asked Breee out on another date.
[00:20:54] Bree: Right.
[00:20:54] Teresa: Like, but. And I'm not making excuses, but think about the. The honest pain and shame and guilt and the brokenness that somebody would have to have to do. All of what you just talked about. I don't know. You know, I know my ex's background, but I don't know. He wasn't getting his needs met. He made that choice and the ramifications of that were really great. And I know that's something that he's going to have to carry.
[00:21:30] Lauren: Well, and for you, it led to a much healthier situation in marriage and relationship.
[00:21:34] Teresa: Yes, it did. In time. In time. And doing my own work, you know, I saw my own therapist and I did my own work and I worked through. And I think we talked about this the last time I took responsibility for my part in the marriage, not the affair. I did not cause anything.
I did not do anything that caused him to have the affair, but my part in the marriage relationship. What are you struggling with?
[00:22:13] Speaker D: I don't even know how to say it, to be completely honest with you. I can't talk about it right now.
[00:22:17] Lauren: I can't. Three.
Three for Bree is the hardest. The hardest of three marriages that she's like. And I think. And I think a lot of it stems from the children. And so she still misses the kids and everything. So three is the hardest for her. But I also think that's probably why she moved towards forgiveness. So Much faster with her third husband. But it's something that I definitely want to get to.
[00:22:36] Bree: Yeah.
[00:22:36] Lauren: And so I'm glad that we're talking about forgiveness, because I think that that's a huge thing. It's also why, like, we were, you know, I was on the apps, just, like, seeing what's going on and stuff, but I was like, I'm not. I knew that I was not in, like, mental space to truly actually date. Like, I'm not. I am not there. I. It's going to take me a long time because I'm not going to trust anybody.
[00:22:56] Bree: Right.
[00:22:56] Lauren: Like, I did buy red flag stickers to hand out, though. Like, if I went on. Funny. If I went on a date and they, like, didn't pay or didn't open a door or anything, I just hand them a red flag sticker.
[00:23:06] Teresa: Oh, my gosh.
[00:23:07] Lauren: I think I just love funny stuff like that because, again, I like calling people out. Like, I.
Because I call myself out, like, when I, like, do I do toxic stuff. Yeah. I just told you one.
[00:23:18] Teresa: So maybe we need to have another podcast on how to date and how not to date.
[00:23:25] Lauren: Yes. Because, yeah, we both need that. Because I have no idea, like, honestly how to date, because I. So, like, even for more from my background, and I think I've told people this before, but I didn't date for six years. I stayed truly single. I had started therapy. I was living in D.C. i hated my job. I hated where I lived, and I was just not in a good spot.
[00:23:45] Teresa: Yeah.
[00:23:45] Lauren: And so I started therapy. And then after starting therapy, I. I learned to love my own time and my personal space and doing what I want, when I wanted. And I actually loved being single. I had no issues. But then I was like, okay, I'm moving. I moved down here. And I was like, all right, well, I'm back in the south, where I want to be.
[00:24:03] Bree: Right.
[00:24:03] Lauren: I enjoy this town, and I want to stay. So let me work on finding a partner. And that's when he popped up. And I think that I missed a lot of the red flags because I didn't date for so long that I had forgotten, because it went basically from straight from college into my first marriage and then straight into being single for, like, basically six years. And so I just. I missed a lot of, like, what love bombing is, what the signs are and everything. So I think that part would be great to actually to learn. So that way, when I do get to the point where I.
I feel like I can put trust in somebody again, because I think that's going to be my main thing.
[00:24:38] Bree: Yeah.
[00:24:38] Lauren: How do I get to the point part of forgiveness where I can trust someone else?
[00:24:43] Teresa: Well, those are two different things. Forgiveness and trusting somebody are two different things.
Well, see, okay, so trust is earned. It does not come automatic. And, you know, I did my own work and I was single for a while before I ever started dating. In fact, I didn't want to date. I mean, why? I didn't need a man emotionally. Didn't need one financially. Why.
And then my husband came into the picture and we dated for about two and a half years. We did our own premarital counseling. We took our time, we asked the hard questions. I looked at him, we both said, I'm not gonna get married. You know, and here we are.
[00:25:18] Bree: Right.
[00:25:19] Teresa: So. But the, the bottom line, trust is earned. And in our relationship, we have boundaries and things that we put in place.
That he came from a marriage, that he was married 30 some years and his wife died of a rare form of cancer. And so my, the things that I need to feel safe in that relationship and for trust are going to be different than what he needs. And so those are some of the things that we have worked through.
I don't know if that made sense.
[00:25:52] Lauren: No, it does. And I think, I mean, having a partner that knows how to communicate.
[00:25:56] Teresa: Yes.
[00:25:57] Lauren: Is the. Probably the first step in that. It, like actually having somebody who can actually talk and communicate, you know, I. That was one of the red flags I missed because whenever we would have an argument, he wouldn't look me in the eye, he would look down, he would roll his eyes, he would, like, be on his phone. He just wouldn't engage at all. And he would say it's because he didn't like confrontation or, you know, I was being too aggressive or whatever the case. So then I was like, okay, well, let me make sure I'm not raising my voice and tamper it down. And then he still did the same thing. So then it's like, okay, no, like, this is just you not wanting to actually have a conversation, a hard, A difficult conversation.
Well, right.
[00:26:32] Bree: He.
[00:26:33] Lauren: Well, now, now I know why. Truly, it's because he was high things. But yeah, I think that getting to a point of forgiveness, and I know a lot of people probably resonate with that. It's, it's, it's going to take time.
[00:26:44] Teresa: It is. And, you know, it. It doesn't, like I say, it doesn't come overnight. It just doesn't.
But I think that as you get further out from the pain and the hurt. And I think also you do your own work, you know, you own your own anger and bitterness and what are you holding on to? Nobody is perfect. We all have stuff that we've done. And, and while again, like let me just repeat, well, I did not do what he did to me.
I still sin and. But I didn't get there overnight. And I think you have to be patient. And I think one of the big things that women get stuck on and men too, but more so for women, is this self righteous thing. Well, look what they did to me. I have a right to be angry and never forgive them. Well, you can choose that. But you're going to stay stuck and tied to that person in the past and it's going to keep you from moving on and having the wonderful life that you should have.
[00:27:47] Lauren: Right.
I think that's probably a good leaving point for this episode. Like we, we all need to get to this point and that's something that I personally am going to be working on myself. And we will definitely have you back next time to talk about how to date. Because Lord, we need help. Lord knows that we need it. And I'm sure we're not the only ones out there. So. But thanks again, Teresa for coming on.
[00:28:09] Teresa: I enjoyed it. Thank you guys.
[00:28:10] Lauren: Always a pleas and we'll see you next time. See you next time.
