Episode Transcript
[00:00:13] Bree: Welcome back to Spill the Tea HSV.
[00:00:15] Lauren: With Lauren and Bree.
This episode is proudly brought to you by the law firm Ryan and Rouse. If you or a loved one have been injured or need legal help for changing family circumstances, contact the personal injury and family law attorneys at Ryan and rouse today at 256-801-1000, or visit them online at www.alabamalaw.com. when your future is on the line, don't go at it alone.
[00:00:47] Bree: How are you doing, Lauren?
[00:00:48] Lauren: I'm good.
[00:00:49] Lauren: How are you?
[00:00:49] Bree: I'm good.
[00:00:50] Lauren: What dating stories you got for us?
[00:00:52] Bree: So I've not been matching very much with anyone lately. However, this one, his bio of dating me is like, dating me is like a chemistry experiment. Sometimes explosive, yet always fascinating. All right, what's he trying to explode that I don't your soul? Well, they've done a pretty damn good job at that so far, but it just. Again, I have not been talking to many people lately just because they all. They're just. No, they're awful.
[00:01:19] Lauren: Yeah.
[00:01:19] Bree: So, yeah, that's pretty much the only thing I have for this week.
[00:01:22] Lauren: I mean, I can't see why you were like, no, I'm done. I'm done for the week.
That was enough.
That was enough and I'm done.
[00:01:28] Lauren: He's cute dog, though.
[00:01:29] Bree: I'll give him that. That's his dog.
[00:01:31] Lauren: That's a Papillon.
[00:01:32] Bree: It's cute.
[00:01:33] Lauren: So I've been, as we know, hanging out in Miami. Yes. How's that going, man? It's been fine. It's just a lot of the same things, sadly. So I had one that. Okay, so I'm going to describe the picture. He's laying on a. On the bed with his shirt off with just like the bottom sheet. There's no comforter or anything. It's just him on the bed. His beard is very unkempt. Like, it's just horrible. And he says that he. He works nights. He did MMA for eight years and he's single with no kids and no drama. I'm like, sir, your picture right there tells me there's drama.
[00:02:04] Bree: He was on mine the other day.
[00:02:05] Lauren: Oh, good.
[00:02:05] Bree: Same nasty looking grizzly bear was on the other day.
[00:02:08] Lauren: So gross.
[00:02:09] Bree: When you pulled up the picture, I was like, I know exactly who that is.
[00:02:11] Lauren: I don't understand, like, what makes people think that this stuff's okay. So obviously didn't match with him, even though he liked me because that's just gross. And then another one says, two truths and a lie. I wear glasses. I'm Asian King Frederick William the First of Prussia loved tall men so much, his army regiment called the Potsdam Giants had the tallest men he could find be Breebed or kidnapped. And he was 5:3, which is the true size of a king.
[00:02:39] Bree: What's he, like five two?
[00:02:41] Lauren: No, I'm. I don't know. That's what I'm saying. He's saying that a king is five' three. Like short king, I guess.
[00:02:46] Bree: No, that, no, that has short man syndrome.
[00:02:49] Lauren: All right. That was. I. It was very odd. It was a very odd way to say that you're short.
[00:02:53] Bree: I'm sick of dating.
[00:02:54] Lauren: Same.
[00:02:55] Lauren: I'm so sick of it.
[00:02:56] Lauren: Same. Oh yeah, cuz there's another story. The 40 year old man, he's 40. This man is 40.
[00:03:01] Lauren: Yes.
[00:03:02] Lauren: And hung out for like, you know, two months. It was never like, serious, right? Like, I was just like, hey, we're hanging out. Like, this is fine. Ghost me, bro. You were 40 years old. Like, just say, hey, I'm not into this anymore. Like, it's not a big deal.
[00:03:14] Anne: You weren't my forever.
[00:03:15] Lauren: You ain't that fucking special.
[00:03:17] Bree: It's not that hard to communicate.
[00:03:18] Lauren: Correct. Just be like, hey, I'm not into it. Okay, cool. It's just that I'm not that into you either. Like, that's fine. I don't care. Yeah, but the fact that you just like straight up ghost after like two months of, you know, just, you know, chatting, it's just why, like you were 40. They're acting like they're, they're 27. But yeah, so don't be a 40 year old. That goes. It's weird. Like your mama probably taught you. I hope she taught you better. Like you're 40 years old. Just be honest. Like it's super weird.
[00:03:48] Bree: Yeah. And most women are going to appreciate.
[00:03:50] Lauren: The fact if you are honest with.
[00:03:51] Bree: Them and you communicate with them as opposed to just never talking to them again.
[00:03:55] Lauren: Right? And like, again, for me, I'm always like, did he think that I care? Like, I don't at all. Like, I, I mean, you know, I told you from day one, I was like, this isn't my guy. Yeah, but you don't sit there. And I was honest with him, so at least give me the courtesy to be honest back.
[00:04:09] Bree: Yeah, I agree.
[00:04:10] Lauren: So I agree.
[00:04:11] Lauren: But yeah, so that's where we are today in this week.
[00:04:14] Bree: It's been a sucky week of dating.
[00:04:16] Lauren: Yeah, it is. It's just gross.
But so we have a special guest today, we have Ann, and she is going to Tell us her story. So, Ann, why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself and about your story.
[00:04:30] Anne: Well, I'm originally from California and now living in Virginia at spring. Spent the first part of my life entirely as a California girl. And I think this will come into the story a little bit, like, I don't know, having a lot of years to reflect on this particular story now. I think how I grew up kind of made me a little bit more vulnerable. I had a very traditional mom who homeschooled me for most of my. Most of my growing up experience. And so for her, like, her ideal of what would happen for me would be that I would go to college, find a guy, have that traditional life that she had, have kids. That is actually not at all what I have done. What I have done is I did go to my undergrad. I didn't meet a guy right then. I did meet a guy immediately afterwards, which we are going to hear all about and a few elements. But in the midst of still not living that traditional life, living that background, I got a master's degree from seminary. I got a second master's degree in national security a few years later and moved to the East Coast. So living in Virginia now and. And for like, about the last 10 years, I've. I've been an analyst, which is a second career move. And during all of that, I have had a terrific amount of dating stor.
Lots of them to choose from. Some that are quite hilarious and some that are just plain weird. Yeah, welcome.
[00:06:09] Lauren: Yeah, dating in the DMV is not a good time, let me tell you.
[00:06:12] Anne: Oh, my gosh.
[00:06:13] Lauren: Like, it's a rough time up there.
[00:06:15] Anne: We could possibly get into some of those other ones sometimes. Just for fun. I actually considered writing a book about, you know, online dating tragedies and comedies and in la, too. I could actually talk about that too, but. Oh, I'm sure the first. The first guy. That's really what I'm going to talk about today. Kind of like that first. I don't know, that first burn. He was kind of my, like, in many ways, my first everything.
I did meet him in undergrad, but we didn't actually get together right then. I was actually a tiny bit out of after graduation when we got together.
It. It was actually in some ways a very healthy beginning, or so I thought at the time. We had been friends in my undergrad dating somebody else, and he was part of this great friend group. I had actually my lat, my summer after graduation. My group of friends. We always Refer to it as that summer. And I think to this day we would all know what that means because we had such a great summer together. We would have these parties on the weekends. We would do stuff in the middle of the week. We would just enjoy each other's company, hanging out. And it was in some ways the most free I've ever been because it was, it was after, after all of, after all of the undergrad experience and right before we had to figure out what we were going to do with our lives. And he was, he was part of that. So like in, I think in some ways, like, I was a little more susceptible to him because he had been part of that great time.
But he, he ended up moving up to the Central Valley and I stayed in the LA area kind of looking for jobs and things like that.
And I think he, I think he hit me up. This was. Okay, this is kind of telling me dating me a bit, A little bit. But this was like in the era of still like AOL Instant Messenger.
[00:08:12] Lauren: Nice.
[00:08:13] Anne: Yeah.
[00:08:14] Lauren: Putting up songs, songs as you're out of office.
[00:08:17] Anne: I know. I don't even know if that exists anymore. But we, we just started talking and, and we would talk like late into the night sometimes, but I never thought like, okay, this is going to go anywhere because like he's living like, like a four hour drive away. And like, this is kind of just my friend. Like we developed that way, a pretty tight friendship actually. We, like after probably about five, six months of this, I was like, yeah, he's, he's kind of my best friend right now. Like he knows everything about me or everything that's going on with me.
And during all this, he was having a lot of troubles with, with his roommates. And so he had been telling me, oh, I'm thinking of, thinking of moving down there. And I have some other friends that are starting a business and I think I'll start helping them out and, and then I'll be, I'll live at their house and be their roommate. So this was actually also. There's a pattern of behavior here. Like, big problem starts here and he immediately starts moving other places. But I didn't know this at the time, so, so I, I end up like actually going up there to help him move. Like there's like in the midst of all this, he, he has been like asking me like, do you want to get together? Do you want to be my girlfriend? And at the time I was like, you know what? No, I, I really don't want to mess with the friendship that we have. I really enjoy what we have, and I, I don't want to harm that. But, and, but in the midst of this moving process, like, I don't know, I guess in some ways I can chalk this up to exhaustion. Like, we were actually around each other consistently. And during that, I was like, okay, let's. Let's see if this, this will actually go somewhere. Like, and, and at the time, it seemed really sweet. He, like, this is actually now, like, the warning sign. I didn't really realize I should be looking for, but he put me on this huge pedestal. Like, he just thought I was the best thing ever. Like, you. I, I didn't, I didn't really have too many people that had ever treated me like that, like, that, like, and everything I was doing was great or that, like, I received compliments from people, but it was never like, you are the best thing ever. And so that was that, that love bombing.
[00:10:35] Lauren: Yeah.
[00:10:36] Bree: You felt like he actually cared, like, you know.
[00:10:38] Anne: Yeah.
And you know what? Maybe in his mind he thought he did, but, you know, you don't. I didn't realize that counterstroke, that, that what, what happens when something, something I do disappoints him. But that, that's later on.
And, and so I, I, I would say I was, I was in love. And he seemed like he was in love too. And we had. My mother did not like him, which was actually not telling of, of too many things. My mom didn't like too many people, so I didn't really know whether to, like, gauge that as a warning sign or not.
But in retrospect, she was right.
[00:11:20] Bree: Mine's been right a lot too, here lately. It's like, okay, it all play out.
[00:11:24] Anne: You know, hey, you were right, Mom.
Yeah. But going into that summer, he, he had actually started working with his friends. He was working on their company, which I don't know. Honestly, I'm not going to describe what the company was. I don't want to, like, be too identifying or anything like that, but it just, it sounded shady. And he kept telling me, like, no, this is all perfectly legitimate, though. We've looked into this. We've had an attorney look into this, and this is all perfectly legitimate. I actually. Another red flag. Just, like, if someone keeps having to assure you of this, like, maybe, even if, even if everything is perfectly legal, maybe this isn't a good idea.
[00:12:04] Bree: If it walks like a duck and it quacks like a duck, it's gonna be a duck.
[00:12:08] Anne: Yeah.
And so he was also living with his business partners at the time. And then, you know, after like a few months, like that living relationship started to spiral out of control. And he starts telling me, like, oh, we're not getting along, things aren't going well. And.
And at the time I was. And at the time, which I hadn't told him, and actually I never told him, I was thinking about breaking up with him because I was also like, you know, I like you, I love you. I don't know that this is actually going anywhere. And so he didn't move in with me, not then anyway. He moved in with my brother. So.
[00:12:47] Lauren: Adjacent. He moved in adjacent. That's what it was.
[00:12:50] Anne: Yeah.
And I guess predictively, that didn't go well either.
He really couldn't have anybody else having any real or perceived type of control in his life. And so it was really hard for him to live with anyone. Like, he liked animals, but so he liked pets. Like, like they were just in, you know, his complete thrall. But he couldn't, he couldn't really live with other people.
So eventually my brother. My brother kicked him out. I still didn't take this as quite a sign of, of because young and dumb at that point, I had already started graduate school, I'd started my first master's program, and I was trying to figure out someplace to live myself. And so we ended up moving in together because I was like, okay, well.
[00:13:41] Lauren: You'Re still in love with this guy. I need a place.
[00:13:43] Anne: Yeah, I'm still in love with this guy. Like, even though I had been thinking, like, I want to break up with this guy like a few months before, I'm still like, oh, well. But I had also told him because I was this very, you know, I had grown up a very good girl and everything. I'm like, no, we need to be getting married. We need to be. I can't live with you. And not. Yeah. And so we did get engaged.
[00:14:06] Lauren: Okay.
[00:14:08] Anne: And we finally did move in together. And in some ways, like, I'm going to go back to my. My whole lack of, like, life experience and so the fact that he could get an apartment. And at that time I would. I felt like incapable of figuring out how to get an apartment and just like these regular things in life. I think he really played upon that. Like, I mean, I was capable of going out and working on a master's degree and doing that type of stuff, but like, all of these practical, street smart sorts of things. I was like, don't really know what I'm doing yet. And so I felt like I needed Him. But as we lived together, as I started growing up, it became readily apparent that he was not growing anymore. He. He started going from job to job. There was, I don't know, at least, like, four or five different jobs, I think. And then, like, there were these bouts of times where he just wasn't working at all. And so he always paid his half of the rent. But I also started realizing that I was the one doing everything.
Like, I was the one going out every single day. I was the one making dinner. I was the one, like, doing everything in the house. And I was realizing, like, I was no longer on the pedestal anymore because, like, I was starting to realize, like, how many faults he would find with me. There was one. I was working at a law office at the time.
I would, of course, dress up for work. Because that's what you do when you work at a law office. Yes. And when I came home, I would change into more comfortable clothing, as, like.
[00:15:45] Lauren: Everybody does with any job. Basically.
[00:15:48] Anne: Everybody does. And I. When he would start to say, like, well, why is it that you wear, like, these. These casual clothes for me, but not. But not any of these dressy clothes for me? I'm like, I actually was at the time, like, so you think I should wear these clothes to work and then continue to wear them? Like, oh, I don't understand why you dress better for them than for me. And I'm like, because it's my job to try.
[00:16:16] Lauren: Are you gonna pay me?
[00:16:17] Bree: I'd be like, well, I don't understand why you're not doing, like, you're just sitting around the house. Why are you not doing anything?
[00:16:22] Anne: Exactly. So, I mean, he would wake up late, go to bed late, and then. Actually, the thing that I noticed that at the time, I felt was so humiliating that I would just not tell anybody about it. Like, he would kick me out of the bedroom and make me sleep on the couch.
[00:16:38] Bree: Oh, wait a minute.
[00:16:40] Anne: Wait.
[00:16:42] Lauren: Like, because you didn't wear the clothes, like, dressy clothes for him, anything.
[00:16:46] Anne: Honestly, if we were having a spat, he's like, I don't want to be around you. So, like, you're gonna sleep on the couch tonight.
[00:16:52] Bree: Oh, I wish. I wish a man would try to put me on the couch. The roof of this house would blow off.
[00:16:58] Lauren: Yeah, I believe you.
[00:16:59] Bree: Oh, my God.
[00:17:00] Anne: And. And, I mean, at the time, I was actually realizing how much I liked going to work more than I liked being at home.
[00:17:11] Lauren: Yeah. I mean, work was an escape for you because home was not comfortable. He was making it not your home. Then would your home supposed to be your safe space?
[00:17:18] Anne: Yeah, exactly. Like, and I was realizing, I mean, just, just little things, that if it felt like he was out of control, if he didn't have complete control over a situation that that was obviously my fault or if he was being blamed for something. There was the one time this was actually just wild. Like, he didn't get me anything for my birthday. He did, did come to me later and said, you know. And I didn't say anything about it because I'm like, well, you're not working, you're not doing anything, so I'm not really expecting a present living off you.
Yeah, Like, I was just like, okay, I see I can read this room. Like, I'm not getting anything for my birthday. So he comes to me later and he's like, you know, I feel like I should have at least got you a birthday card. I think that that would have been a good thing for me to have done. And I said, you know what? I. Yeah, I would have really liked to have had a birthday card or something. Suddenly this is turned around and, well, you're so selfish. How could you expect me to do these things?
[00:18:24] Bree: Those cards are 97 cents at Walmart. 97 cents, right.
[00:18:28] Anne: And you are the one that just brought it up.
[00:18:31] Lauren: Well, right.
He's like, how dare you admit that I should have done something for you.
[00:18:37] Anne: So, like, I actually came to realize later that the only correct answer to that would have been, you know what? I don't need anything. Just the fact that you're here doing.
[00:18:48] Lauren: Nothing for me is enough.
[00:18:50] Anne: Your existence here in my same space is enough for me. Clearly, like, sad, but true. But no, this is. This is kind of like, I don't know, the first couple years, like, it didn't really. Like, it did. It did get physical eventually. And.
And the sad thing was like, I mean, it was more like shoving and things like that, that when he was frustrated with me.
And so at that time, I never really saw that as physical abuse because I was like, well, you're not actually hurting me or not punching me. And so like, I didn't know enough of that time about abuse. And that, that also qualified that. And yeah, like, I don't. I don't know, like, learning about this later, I was. I'm floored that I could rationalize myself that way. Like, just say, oh, this is okay, because it's not as bad as it could possibly be.
[00:19:45] Lauren: Yeah, we make excuses for them all the time. When you love somebody, you make all kinds of excuses for Them.
[00:19:49] Anne: Yeah, you keep your blinders on to get red flags. Yeah. Or just like, oh, well, he's just having a bad day. I think the main thing that I felt like was that I am enough to handle this. Like, I am strong enough to handle his bad day and also go out and have my job, work, provide. Right.
[00:20:08] Lauren: Be the man.
[00:20:09] Anne: Yeah. Yes, exactly.
And he even brought it up at one point. He was like, you know what? We kind of have these reverse positions. Like, you're going out into the world and doing the job and I'm just staying home and. And being the. Being the wife. And he was not saying that in a way that I think that there was actually. I think on his end there was a great amount of self loathing that he had going on for himself, which, you know, I'm actually not sympathetic for anymore.
[00:20:34] Lauren: No.
[00:20:35] Anne: Good for you. Like, well, like, go fix yourself if that's the problem. But at the time, I had a great amount of sympathy for everything he was feeling. And I was like, you know what? Like, he can get better. I need to.
[00:20:47] Lauren: He needs to get a job.
[00:20:48] Anne: He needs to get a job. He needs to do a lot of things.
[00:20:51] Bree: McDonald's is always able to hold a job well.
[00:20:54] Lauren: And that's it. Like, they're constantly switching jobs because there's something that's always wrong.
[00:20:58] Anne: There's always something wrong. So he had bad headaches. I don't actually know how bad. Like, he would always tell me, oh, I have bad headaches and I can't go outside right now because their headache. I have a. My headache is too bad. I can only believe them when they say their head hurts or whatever it is that hurts. And I'm not. I'm not doctor. I can't really qualify. Like, are you blowing this out of proportion or are you using this as a. An excuse or is this actually a thing? I don't know. But when he started to get into, like, shoving me and tripping me and knocking me down. No punching.
[00:21:35] Bree: He tripped you.
[00:21:36] Anne: He would trip me. Like, he used to be a wrestler and so that was like one of the moves.
[00:21:41] Lauren: What a baby. Back bitch.
[00:21:43] Anne: Yeah.
[00:21:44] Bree: The shit out of that, man. I'm so sorry. I'd beat the hell out of him.
[00:21:47] Anne: Yeah. Yeah, he would deserve it.
[00:21:50] Bree: Sorry. Sorry.
[00:21:51] Anne: But no, like, this was like, during the arguments, but he told me, like, you can't fight back because if you fight back, if you hit me, like, you could start one of my headaches and my. If my headache gets bad enough, I could be blinded.
Okay, okay, Helen, Keller.
[00:22:09] Bree: Here we go.
Here we go.
[00:22:12] Anne: You know, later. Like, maybe, like, that's just one of the consequences of your actions, you know.
[00:22:16] Lauren: Correct.
[00:22:17] Bree: You are a very nice lady.
[00:22:18] Lauren: Because, I mean, that is, though. It's a consequence of your actions. Like, if that would have happened, then that would have been on him.
[00:22:23] Anne: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So. But at the time, I was just like, no, no, I can't. So, yeah, I never hit him back, I never shoved him back. I never did any of these things because I was like, I don't want to hurt you. But that never went my way. Like, it's okay to hurt you because.
[00:22:38] Lauren: Right.
[00:22:38] Anne: You're just part of my. Part of my scenery, I guess. Woman. So there was a time where he actually got legitimately sick and he had to have some surgery on his leg. And during that particular summer, he had. So he had actually moved away from me. He had moved out of the house. But he was like, no, we're still going to be together, but I'm going to move away.
And.
And I. And I was like, well, I can't move away because I have this job up here anyway.
[00:23:06] Lauren: Was he moving for a job?
[00:23:08] Anne: He was moving away for his health, for his headache. Yes, actually, he moved closer to the beach, to the ocean, and he was moving in with a friend of his. Married a male friend of his. And so it was this couple. And after about two months, that relationship started going south.
[00:23:28] Bree: Imagine that.
[00:23:29] Anne: Imagine that. And I was like, okay, I feel quasi broken up with this guy because he's kind of left me, but he's like, no, no, no. Like, we're still together. Like, you're just. You just have your job up in LA still, and you need to find another job, or I'm. And I'm going to find another job down here. And then, like, this is. We're just going to start transitioning. That was kind of his plan anyway. I never. I never did end up finding another job. This was like, actually during, like, the last vestiges of the Great Recession and everything. So I was kind of lucky to have a job at the time.
Um, but yes, he moved to the. The seaside for his health because he was a Victorian lady at heart. Really.
[00:24:12] Lauren: Yeah, that's what it sounds like. And, like, how long had it been since he had had a job at this point?
[00:24:18] Anne: At that point? So he had had, like, a few things, like fits and starts and stuff, and he. So his parents were also fairly well off, and so, like, occasionally they would help him too.
[00:24:29] Lauren: So they enabled him.
[00:24:30] Anne: Yeah, there was a Certain amount of enabling. They bought him a car. Like, not the car he wanted, though. They were like. He was like, oh, it's a ugly brown Torres. Why would they get me?
[00:24:39] Lauren: This dick does that. Every car he's been given, he's been given so many cars like that. That man's gone through like 20 cars. And he would, like, even when we were together, he went through like 1, 2, 3, 4 cars in four years.
And the cars that were given to him, he was always like, it'll. It'll do for now, I guess. Like, nothing's ever good enough.
[00:24:58] Anne: Yeah, no. He was like so angry at his father for getting in this car. He's just like, it's, it's just really ugly. Of course he would get me a car like this because he doesn't really care about me. Like, he got you a car. Yeah. He bought you a car that works. It's not. Yeah.
So we.
He was, he was driving around that car down in, down at the beach and everything too. And so, and telling me that he's trying to find a job down there and everything.
He ends up eventually moving out of his friend's place because they had said, you know what, you gotta go. You're making us miserable.
Yeah, pattern of behavior. And so at this same time, and this legitimately happened because I have like, you know, X ray evidence of this, like, he actually developed this like, tumor in his leg, which they needed in the actual bone. And so it was actually like, not, it was like a benign tumor, but like, it's something that can cause your, your leg to break basically if you don't get it taken care of, like, if it continues to grow. And so there was this entire, like, assessment period. Like, we got to get, we got to basically do this surgery where we're going to like rebuild part of the bone in your leg so that, you know, later on it doesn't break. And so this was, this was actually a, you know, not a life threatening thing, but a kind of a serious thing to have, to have had during the summer that was going on. I was still working that current law office and Los Angeles. I think I was living with my best friend at that time. Like, we were being roommates. And then I was driving down, like about a three hour drive. I would work four days a week and then I would drive down to him for three days and take care of him and when I could take him to doctor's appointments and things like that. And so that was life. Like, I was just going back and forth on their Freeway all the time. Like working at the law office and then taking care of him when I, I could.
[00:26:54] Lauren: And that LA traffic is no joke. LA traffic sucks.
[00:26:57] Anne: It's, it's, it's so much fun. It's like my, my favorite hobby, but.
[00:27:03] Lauren: Love sitting on the 105.
[00:27:05] Anne: Yeah, it's, yeah, that's, that's the worst.
But so it's like months of this. He's doing physical therapy. He has the surgery. I think for the day of the surgery. I don't think I slept in like well over 24 hours because like I was like just everything. Trying to get everything taken care of for him and then waiting at the hospital and then like recovery and then getting him back home. I was just like, we were both exhausted actually. When we, we got back to his apartment, I was so tired I couldn't sleep anymore. And there, I actually feel like I must have blacked out because like, there was a point where I was like, I don't remember anything that happened. Like, how did we get this food? Like, when did we start watching this movie?
Like, things like that. I was just exhausted.
[00:27:56] Lauren: That's dangerous.
[00:27:57] Anne: Yeah, very. And then like he started to get better. And like this was a few weeks after this. Like at my law office, they were doing cutbacks. So they weren't doing layoffs, but they were doing cutbacks. They were like, they were one thing they were doing. They were like, you can't work four days a week anymore because I was working, I was working 40 hours, but it was like 10 hours a day. And then going down for like my three day weekend with, with him. And they told me, like, sorry, you can't do that anymore. You have to work eight hours a day, five days a week. And, and so I find this out. Like, this was like my last Thursday I could be doing like my, my three day weekend. So I go down here, go down to see him and I tell him, like, this is what's happening. Like, I don't know how. Like, I've been working as a paralegal all this time and I feel like, like they've, they've just pulled the rug out from under me. Like they, I think my office doesn't seem to trust me and I'm not making any more money and like a whole litany of just like kind of normal job complaints, like when something like this happens. But like he turns to me and he's like, you know what? I'm really in the middle of still getting well from my surgery. It's only been a Few weeks. And I, and you're, you seem really upset about this right now. I. In the interest of my health, I don't think that I can have you around here right now. So I think you need to go back to L. A because you're really bumming me out.
[00:29:18] Bree: In the interest of his health?
[00:29:21] Anne: Yes, in the interest of his delicate health. And so this was actually, after years of all of this behavior, there was actually something in me that broke because I, I didn't get mad. I would have gotten mad in, in other times. I would have said, what do you mean? But I was just like, okay, no, I'm gonna go back to la.
See ya. No, I'm gonna, I'm just gonna go now. I went, I packed up, I got, got into my car, and at that point I was like, I am breaking up with this guy.
[00:29:52] Bree: Absolutely.
[00:29:53] Anne: Like, I mean, I actually did leave the door. It opened a tiny bit. When I got out to the car, I had, had, had all of my bags, had everything in the car, and I was like, I'm gonna wait five minutes before I turn this car on. If he comes out, I'm willing to talk to him. If he doesn't, like, I'm leaving back to la. I'm gonna hang out with my best friend. It was like Memorial Day weekend, I think so it was like an extra long weekend. But he didn't come out. And I'm like, okay. I guess in the midst of my drive back to la, I get this text message from him that's like, you left dishes in the sink.
[00:30:27] Lauren: Oh, you needed to do the dishes before you left.
[00:30:29] Anne: You didn't do the dishes before you. Why would you leave these dishes for me to do?
[00:30:33] Lauren: The audacity of this man.
[00:30:35] Anne: Clearly, I am the most selfish individual that has ever lived.
[00:30:41] Lauren: Yeah, well, as someone who knows you personally, that's a lie.
[00:30:45] Anne: Thank you. Thank you.
[00:30:47] Bree: But I don't want to come out of me.
[00:30:49] Anne: I, I actually, that weekend was actually the first good weekend I had had in a really long time because I spent it with my best friend and her family. And like, we went to the LA fair, we went to the beach, we went, we did all of these things that I had been shedding out of my life because I had been making him the center of it.
[00:31:10] Lauren: Yeah.
[00:31:10] Anne: For, like, in many ways for months. Because, like, I was, I was working and I was, I was there with him and doing for him. And I realized right then that, you know, if I had been the one that was sick, you wouldn't have done Any of this for me when I'm having a legitimately bad day at work, you can't, you don't have enough for me to hear that, to hear about that. So if I was sick, I would be in it on my own. I would have to figure it out. And at that point, I was so emotionally drained that I didn't. I actually didn't feel sad about breaking up. I didn't. I didn't even feel angry. I didn't really feel anything. I was just like, this is. Yeah, like, this is. This just makes sense. I'm like, I'm like a fully functioning person. I have a job. At this point, I actually knew. I'm an adult, I can do all of this stuff. I am a fully self sufficient person. And I think that was in some ways my school of hard knocks. Like, I started out as this person who was so unsure about my ability to maneuver the world that I was like, okay, I need to. I need to be with this guy who seems to know sort of what he's doing. And during this process of being with him, I actually realized, like, oh, I've grown up and he doesn't.
[00:32:20] Lauren: Yeah, he has no idea. He has no idea what he's doing. And he did not grow. You did.
[00:32:26] Anne: Exactly. And I am actually very grateful for the fact that I did grow through that because that wasn't necessarily the foregone conclusion. And I'm really glad we didn't have kids or anything like that either, which, thank God.
[00:32:41] Lauren: So by the time you broke up, how long had you been together? At this point?
[00:32:45] Anne: We've been together like six years. Okay, so it was. It was a pretty. Pretty sizable chunk of time. Of. Of my twenties.
[00:32:52] Lauren: Still engaged, right?
[00:32:54] Anne: No, we actually got engaged twice. So, like, right before we moved in together, like, I actually, it was. We were only engaged the first time. Probably like four or five months. Four months maybe. What happened? And we had this big fight and we said like, okay, we're not gonna be engaged anymore. But then at that point, we had already put all of this. These plans in place where we were, like, moving in together. And so, like, neither one of us had anywhere else to go. So we're like, okay, well, we're still gonna do this. We're gonna make up. And then we're just gonna, you know, put that on the back burner.
We got. We were gonna get engaged again. Or we, I don't know, a little quasi. We. There was no ring being worn at this time, but it was about, I would say, four, four months. Before he had his surgery for his leg, I said, okay, let's. Let's get engaged. He, he had proposed and we were planning on just having like a small. We called it the pop up wedding. We were just going to get married on the beach, and anybody that wanted to come could come. I still like this idea as a wedding, by the way. Like, it's a lot less fuss.
Some of the ideas can be good ideas.
[00:34:09] Bree: Absolutely.
[00:34:09] Anne: But we actually got into this disagreement over what I was going to call myself. He wanted me to take his last name. And I said, well, you know what? I've been. I have these degrees now. I, you know, I was developing this career. I had my first master's degree. And I, like, all of this was under, you know, your name. My, My last name?
[00:34:32] Lauren: Yeah.
[00:34:32] Anne: I'm like, you know what? I, I think professionally I want to keep it this. But I'm okay with hyphenating it otherwise, like, we can, we can hyphenate it. And I, I would like to do that. And he's like, no, because I, I don't think I'm ever going to have children. And the only way I can carry on my family name is by like, if you have my family name.
[00:34:52] Lauren: And I'm like, that's, that doesn't make sense.
[00:34:54] Bree: You're both going to die.
[00:34:55] Anne: What does that matter?
[00:34:56] Lauren: Yeah, exactly. You're still not gonna carry it on.
[00:34:59] Anne: Yeah, I like that. That doesn't make any sense to me. And I was just like, you know what? No. And he's like, well, then I don't want to get married. I'm like, well, okay. And I think, I think this was like months before that. But, like, I don't know, I was finally developing a spine, I guess. There was no big fight about it or anything like that, which was a little bit standout in a way. But I was just like, okay, well, if, if that's how you feel about it, then yeah, we don't have to get married. So that, that was the second time that the eng called off.
[00:35:30] Lauren: But then you were still together until he said, oh, we're done. So you weren't actually even engaged at that point.
[00:35:37] Anne: Well, so I broke up with him after his surgery. So after he had sent me off to la, like, like, so we were, we were together this entire time. It was just like whether we were engaged or not.
[00:35:48] Lauren: Okay, but he sent you to LA and didn't even technically break you up with you, so you had to do it.
[00:35:54] Anne: No, no. I mean, there was. I was not really on that understanding that he was breaking up with me.
And I don't. Like, I think he was just like, you are inconvenient to my life right now, so go away, but you are going to come back later. I think that was, like, more of the idea anyway. I had decided, like, okay, this is. This is over anyway, because I'm like you. Clearly, if I ever. I have a problem, you are not going to be there for me. Like, you are. Maybe not. Yeah, like, maybe you are not capable of being there for anyone. But, like, that's. That's. That's not my fault too. I shouldn't have to stick up for that either. But. No, I was still thinking of him, though. Like, I was having my good weekend up in LA with my friends and they were kind of like, yeah, it's great to hang out with you again. Like, we haven't. There was this track record of him separating me from the people in my life. And so, like, I hadn't seen a lot of isolation. Yeah. Yeah. It's a big sign. I actually knew at this point not to tell them how bad things were getting in my life because I didn't want to hear from them. You need to get out of this.
[00:37:03] Lauren: Yeah.
[00:37:04] Anne: Yeah. It's amazing how much we actually enable the other person that is hurting us.
[00:37:10] Lauren: Yeah, we hide it. We hide it because I think it's. It's partly because we're embarrassed and ashamed that we're allowing this to happen to ourselves, but we just keep telling us that it's because we love this person and we're protecting them.
[00:37:20] Anne: Right, right. 100%. But, like, the thing that I noticed was he assumed that they were all telling me to break up with him, like, all along. And so, like, if I did go and hang out with my friends, he'd be like, your friends are bad.
Yeah. Like, what did. What did they say about me? Or what. What are. What are they telling you to do? Like, are they telling you to break up with me and things like this? And so, like, he kind of, like, knew, like, I am not a good guy.
[00:37:45] Bree: He knew he was shit. He just didn't want to fully admit it.
[00:37:48] Lauren: Well. And he didn't want you to be the one to end it either, because they like to have that control.
[00:37:52] Anne: No, no, not at all. So.
[00:37:54] Lauren: So when you ended it, what happened? Did he get mad?
[00:37:56] Anne: It was wild, actually. So I didn't break up with him for another two weeks after.
Back to la, but I was coming back the next weekend. Still. That was still the plan. He was still in physical therapy. And I thought, okay, once your physical therapy is all done, once the doctor gives you a clean bill of health, that is when I am leaving. And that's what I did. I told him, like, you know what? Like, you're gonna stay down here at the beach and I'm gonna go back to LA and live my life. He wasn't angry. He was actually hysterically sad, I guess would be. I told him, you know, I'm phasing myself out. Like, I need to be up in la. Like, my job is changing. I am not finding another job down here and I don't want to be in this relationship anymore. So even at the time. And also I was emotionally dead at the time is one thing. So I didn't even really have the energy for angry. I was just, this is. This is how it is.
We don't need to argue about it. I'm not trying to hurt you. This is. This is just what I need right now. I think it was like, maybe the day later I was there at his apartment. I didn't know where he was and it wasn't a particularly big apartment. I'm just like. Like, what. What happened to him? He's not. He's not in the kitchen. He's not here in the living room. He's not. Doesn't seem to be in the bedroom. And then I finally realized he was in the closet crying.
[00:39:12] Lauren: Okay.
[00:39:13] Anne: And I was just.
[00:39:14] Lauren: That's a choice.
[00:39:16] Anne: Yeah, I. I was actually like, I don't. I don't know. Men feel often like they do not want women to see them crying. I don't have a problem seeing you crying. I feel have a problem when you turn it into this. I'm going to lock myself in the closet.
[00:39:30] Lauren: Yeah. Dramatic.
[00:39:31] Anne: Yes. He got. He got very weird about. I think he just realized, like, I really was leaving. There wasn't really. He actually said to me, like, I don't know who you are anymore. You just don't seem to care. And I'm like, yeah, you're like a dog. Sorry. I'm just. I am exhausted now. I have no ill will towards you. I just. I can't do this anymore. Like, there's no. I think he actually realized. No, she's actually serious about this. So it was not a great process for me on this side either because I was still having my own work trouble. I'm like, feeling unappreciated around there. I did find an apartment. I was. Ended up just staying with my best friend, but she was about to Have a baby. And I'm like, okay, we can't, I can't stay here. And so because she's got a baby coming, I find an apartment. And then it was like, it was before I was able to get my furniture from the storage unit. Like, like I was on a borrowed blow up mattress in the middle of this studio apartment in Koreatown in, in Los Angeles. And I was just like, this is a low moment. I've, I've broken up. I have an apartment full of nothing. I have my job and everything. But that's not going all that well right now. And I'm just like, I, I, I don't know, I go, well, everything will get better from here, I guess.
And I'm very happy to say that it has. Like, that's actually the thing that I think helps.
I am different than John is. Was all of that because like, I have my little moment, but I have good moments after that. I build old and make a new life and things like this. And I don't have this long history of people that hate me.
[00:41:12] Lauren: Yeah, yeah. Or that kicked you out of your living with them.
[00:41:14] Anne: Yeah, yeah. I don't, I don't know. I mean, you do have to stop and think, like, if something keeps happening to you, maybe, maybe it is you.
[00:41:25] Lauren: So you guys broke up, you moved to the east coast, but you were telling us offline that you ended up hearing back from him again. So tell everybody how long that is, how long that gap was.
[00:41:36] Anne: That was 14 years ago. And so he reached out.
Yeah, yeah. The last time I spoke to him was 14 years ago. It was like a tiny bit after. It was tiny bit after. I was laying around in my, in my K town apartment going like, okay, what, what am I gonna do with the rest of my life?
And like the reason that I, that that was the last time we spoke was like, I finally took him off my phone plan.
[00:42:05] Bree: Nice for you.
[00:42:06] Anne: Yeah, like, I was just like, I, and I kept trying to tell him, like, I'm taking you off my phone plan. And he wouldn't reply to me. He wouldn't reply to me. So one day I was just like, okay, I'm taking you off my phone plan and I guess you're not gonna have a phone anymore.
[00:42:18] Bree: Good luck.
[00:42:18] Anne: But like, and I, like, I never have changed my phone number or anything and I hadn't heard from him at all. But he's never tried to reach out until like just recently he set up an entire LinkedIn account that like the only message on it is a message to me, he has no other friends.
[00:42:39] Lauren: On it, but he made it to find you.
[00:42:41] Anne: He made it to find me. And so there are certain things on my LinkedIn profile that are public because I. It's. It's for my career. Like, I want people, like, even people that do not know me to be able to see these things.
[00:42:52] Lauren: Right.
[00:42:53] Anne: But. And I think that's how, like, he tracked me down. But it sounds like the pattern of behavior is holding true. He's like, oh, I've had some identity stuff situation, and life is hard. I'm thinking of moving out to the East Coast. I'm like, you know, nothing has changed in your life.
[00:43:08] Lauren: You're like, please don't.
[00:43:09] Bree: Yeah, stay where you are.
[00:43:10] Anne: Do not come here. We don't want you.
[00:43:13] Lauren: That's crazy. 14 years. 14 years later, he reaches back out because his life is so bad that he's still like, well, let me go see if I could mess her life up again.
[00:43:22] Bree: They really do always come back.
[00:43:24] Lauren: It may take time, but they do.
[00:43:26] Anne: I firmly agree with that. Like, it's. I think, like, in some way, I wouldn't be surprised if it was something like he did the last time when we ended up moving again together. Like, well, I ticked off your brother, or I've ticked off this entire line of other people, so I need somebody to move in with. So, hey, she looks like she has an apartment or something.
[00:43:46] Lauren: Hey, she loved me once. Maybe she can love me again 14 years later.
[00:43:50] Anne: Exactly. But, no, I think. I don't know. I think the hardest thing in the aftermath of all of us was trusting myself again. Because there were all of these signs talking this through with you all. There were many times in this relationship that I should have shook myself and said, okay, what are you doing? Like, I finally did it.
[00:44:11] Lauren: Hindsight's always 20 20. Always.
[00:44:13] Anne: It always is. And so for. I think I stopped being angry at him before I stopped being angry at myself.
[00:44:21] Lauren: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:44:23] Anne: Like, I. I felt like it's only been, like, the last five years, five, six years or so that I have felt like I trust myself again.
And oddly enough, that was because I was listening to. There were some true crime broadcasts, podcasts that I listen to.
[00:44:39] Lauren: Nice.
[00:44:40] Anne: And one of them is about domestic violence, domestic abuse, sorts of situations. And for a long time, I was like, I'm a smart person. Even the midst of living with an abusive person who was constantly telling me, like, the reality that you think you see is not really the reality. Like, you're. You're just treating me badly. That I don't like using the term gaslighting because people seem to be overusing that lately too. But it is the traditional gaslighting sort of situation. And so in. In this particular podcast I was listening to, it was essentially like, these tactics work because they do. Like these. These guys will find somebody who is a good person, who is a conscientious person, who often is a high functioning person who wants to do good in the world and is also a self reflecting person, like. Yep.
[00:45:28] Lauren: Someone who has empathy.
Someone who has empathy and somebody who's a giver.
[00:45:33] Anne: Right. And somebody who doesn't want to, at the very baseline, doesn't want to do anything to hurt another person. And like, that is. That is the weakness as far as they see it. It's. It's actually a really good thing.
[00:45:46] Lauren: Right.
[00:45:46] Anne: But yeah, it's something I talk to.
[00:45:48] Lauren: My therapist about all the time because it's like. Because for me, you know, she's like, you love to have a hard exterior, Lauren. She's like, but you take care of everybody that's in your life that you love. And she was like, you literally would do anything for any of them. And I was like, well, yeah, but you know, she was like. And he knew that because he saw you take care of him right away. They. They exploit it. And that's not our fault for being good people.
[00:46:08] Bree: No, it's not.
[00:46:09] Anne: Yeah. And we should still be good people. We should just realize that there are those. Those crappy people out there.
[00:46:15] Lauren: Yeah. It gets hard, though. Now I'm to the point where I'm like, I ain't doing nothing. At least not in a. I'll do things for my friends, but I ain't doing nothing for a relationship. I'll be like, no, you show me.
[00:46:26] Anne: First that you're not a complete crap bag and we'll talk.
[00:46:30] Lauren: Yeah, exactly. Well, that's crazy. That's. I mean, that's a crazy story with, like, coming back 14 years later. Like, obviously he was emotionally and physically abusive and all that, but you came out stronger for it, so that should give everybody hope, you know?
[00:46:45] Anne: Yeah, it's. If you feel like there's something wrong, there probably is.
[00:46:50] Lauren: Yeah. Listen to your gut.
[00:46:52] Anne: Yeah.
[00:46:52] Lauren: Listen to your friend.
[00:46:54] Anne: Yeah, yeah. No, that's actually the thing. Like, I. If anybody tries to come between me and my friends now, I'm like, okay, this. This is my huge warning sign. Like, these people, maybe I don't always trust myself, but I do trust my friends.
[00:47:07] Lauren: Yeah.
[00:47:08] Anne: Yeah.
[00:47:08] Lauren: Yep. Listen to your friends.
[00:47:09] Anne: Absolutely.
[00:47:10] Lauren: Thanks for coming on we appreciate it.
[00:47:12] Anne: Yeah, right. You ladies are doing some good work in the world, so thank you. Tell people. Tell people to look out for the bad ones.
[00:47:21] Bree: Yeah, we're trying.
[00:47:22] Anne: Yeah.
[00:47:23] Lauren: All right, Bree. Well, we'll see you next week.
[00:47:26] Anne: See you next week, Sam.
