Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign.
[00:00:09] Speaker B: Welcome back to Spill the Tea HSV.
[00:00:11] Speaker C: With Lauren and Bri.
This episode is proudly brought to you by the law firm Ryan and Rouse. If you or a loved one have been injured or need legal help for changing family circumstances, contact the personal injury and family law attorneys at Ryan and rouse today at 256-801-1000 or visit them online at www.alabamalaw.com. when your future is on the line, don't go at it alone.
[00:00:44] Speaker D: This episode is also brought to you by Bridge & Bloom, LLC. Bridge & Bloom Therapy Services is changing the way Madison county thinks about mental health concern. Co owners Kate and Ashley bring over 20 years of combined experience and a shared belief that healing happens through safety, compassion and connection. Their practice provides evidence based care for a wide range of needs, including trauma treatment with EMDR and brain spotting, support for children navigating high conflict situations, and counseling for couples working through challenges or learning to co parent. Each client receives care tailored to their story in a space where they can feel heard, supported and empowered. To learn more, visit bridgeandbloomllc.com or call 256-469-1877. Again, that's bridgeandbloomllc.Com or call 256-469-18 77.
[00:01:39] Speaker C: Hey, Bri.
[00:01:40] Speaker A: Hey, Lauren. How's it going?
[00:01:42] Speaker C: You know, Lord help us all.
[00:01:45] Speaker A: Yeah, this week has been interesting.
Went on a date and he resembles the my third ex husband's youngest child. They have like the same eyes, the same characteristics, even the same mannerisms.
[00:02:02] Speaker C: So that probably freaked you out.
[00:02:05] Speaker A: At first it freaked me out, but then it made me really sad. Like it really upset me. And like, I got home last night and I cried.
My mom calls me and she's like, what's wrong with you? I'm like, he looks like the third one's youngest son.
[00:02:18] Speaker C: Lord.
[00:02:18] Speaker A: She's like, that's pretty weird. I'm like, yeah, yeah.
[00:02:21] Speaker C: I mean, immediately. That's like a no. Just from that I feel like, yeah, big friends, whatever.
[00:02:26] Speaker A: But I think I'm.
[00:02:27] Speaker C: Yeah, no, Bri, we're not being friends with men. I've told you this story. We are not doing it. You have friends, you have me and you have our third one.
And.
[00:02:36] Speaker A: But y' all are always telling me I need to make new friends.
[00:02:38] Speaker C: Women.
I don't have any stories because I, I don't care.
Like, I just don't want to look, I do not care. I do not want to be on these apps. I don't need to have stories because people just Keep sending me dick.
[00:02:53] Speaker B: So.
[00:02:54] Speaker C: Stories about him.
[00:02:56] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:02:56] Speaker C: You know, so I'm like, I still.
[00:02:58] Speaker A: Find, huh, Those have been plentiful like this last week or so.
[00:03:03] Speaker C: No kidding. I'm like, man, what's funny is I was thinking, like, man, somebody should post him. He hasn't been posted in a minute, and then somebody did, and I didn't have to do anything to do it, so he does it himself.
But anyway, so today we have Ashley with us, and she's going to tell us a little bit about her story, so. Hi, Ashley.
[00:03:23] Speaker B: Hi.
[00:03:24] Speaker C: How are you?
[00:03:25] Speaker B: I'm okay.
[00:03:25] Speaker C: Yeah.
All right, well, tell us a little bit, like, about your story.
[00:03:29] Speaker B: Okay.
So I am currently divorced. How I got here is a long story story.
So our. We started when I was young. Young, like 19. So I met him when I was 19 years old. I only had, like, one relationship before him.
[00:03:51] Speaker C: Yeah. And how old is he? Or was he like at the time? Same age frame.
[00:03:55] Speaker B: A couple years older than me. All right, so.
So when I met him, I. I had, like, no. No experience, really. At all.
[00:04:04] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:04:05] Speaker B: And I remember looking back, you know, I can see all the red flags in our relationship, but the one that sticks out to me, which probably should have had me running anyways, was our first date.
We went to see a movie, and he let me pick the movie. And I loved the movie. Like, I love stupid comedies, stupid romantic comedies. Oh, yeah, I loved, loved the movie. And I know it was stupid movie, but I loved it.
[00:04:28] Speaker A: He.
[00:04:28] Speaker B: He hated the movie.
Absolutely hated the movie.
[00:04:33] Speaker C: It's not macho enough.
[00:04:34] Speaker B: Yeah, it wasn't. It didn't have meaning, you know, it was just for comedic, you know, like, you know, I just want to watch a movie and not think about anything. Amen. Yeah. Like, I just want to laugh.
[00:04:46] Speaker C: When we watch movies or when we read. We want. We don't want to have to think about anything.
[00:04:49] Speaker B: We're like, yeah, we just want to enjoy what we're doing.
And just kind of now I can look back and see all the red flags of, you know, he didn't like anything I liked. None of my hobbies.
Like, nothing I liked was good enough. The food I ate, the colors I liked, you know, everything had to be neutral.
And he would. He would talk bad about me, but, like, subtle enough that it just kind of came off as, like a joke or that's what he would say. Like, I'm just joking. And he would even do that, like, with my family. He'd be like, like, she likes to eat spaghetti all the time. Oh, my God, it's so gross. It's so disgusting. Like, and it would just be like, I really love spaghetti.
[00:05:32] Speaker C: And first of all, who doesn't love spaghetti? Like, are you a psychopath? Like, it's spaghetti.
[00:05:37] Speaker B: Yeah. And so I, I stopped doing like a lot of the things that I love to do. Like, I didn't eat the foods I liked, I didn't listen to the music I liked. I. The way that we decorated the house was neutral. No colors.
I didn't watch the movies, the TV that I wanted, you know, everything that I liked, I just kind of gave up to kind of go along and create no conflict.
[00:05:58] Speaker C: Man, that sucks.
[00:05:59] Speaker B: And so we stayed together for a couple of years and then we just kind of naturally grew into, okay, I guess now we get married. I guess now we buy a house.
[00:06:10] Speaker C: Yeah, the next steps. And nobody's leaving. So everybody's like, well, I guess we just go on.
[00:06:14] Speaker B: Yeah. Just kind of doing what was expected of me to do. Like, this is what you do now. You went to college, you got a job, now you get married and you buy a house and you, you live the relationship you have. What everybody expects you to do.
[00:06:27] Speaker C: Yep.
[00:06:29] Speaker B: But he, he was very adamant that he did not want kids and I wanted kids.
[00:06:32] Speaker C: Oh.
[00:06:34] Speaker B: And of course that's something that I kind of gave up too. We weren't going to have kids.
[00:06:40] Speaker C: Well, see, that's something nobody should have to give up because I'm child free by choice. And so I don't want kids. But I tell people that from the very first date, like, I do not want kids. And so I'm very honest about it because you can't. Like you, that's not something you should have to compromise on. So that's, that sucks because you shouldn't have had to compromise on that anyway.
[00:06:56] Speaker B: Yeah. And all that should have been red flags for me, but I kept going.
[00:07:01] Speaker C: As we do. As we do.
[00:07:03] Speaker B: Yep. And I kind of just got into this pattern where even around the house and everything, I did everything. Like from mowing the grass, taking the garbage out, doing dishes, doing laundry, taking care of the bills, everything that needed to be done. Did.
[00:07:17] Speaker C: What is with these men who just want free rides and who they want to be the women. Yeah. And it's gross.
[00:07:23] Speaker A: Disgusting.
[00:07:24] Speaker C: I just don't understand.
[00:07:26] Speaker B: Kind of more and more as we, we went along, there started to be this pattern too of where he would have relationships with his co workers that were very like emotional relationships. Like he was very involved in their emotional well being and he would hide, you know, the Conversations for me, the conversation, the text messages. When he would call them, he would go out to lunch with them and say he wasn't going out to lunch with them. He'd be talking to them about their husbands and their family life.
Everything that I was kind of asking from for him emotionally, he was giving to these other women and then calling me crazy.
[00:08:05] Speaker C: Shocking. Gaslighting you.
[00:08:06] Speaker B: Yes, when I called him out.
And so without kids, I just went along with it because I lived my life. He lived his life kind of more like roommates. I did everything. I was happy to be left alone. He got to spend his money and do what he wanted.
Kind of left him alone, too.
But then, unplanned, I got pregnant, and I was terrified to tell him because I thought for sure he was gonna say, get an abortion.
[00:08:35] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:08:35] Speaker B: Like, he did not want kids. I was scared. I was like, I might even wait to tell him, but I didn't. I told him, and his response was, well, I guess we're doing this.
So we had one kid, and I was working the whole time, still doing everything. Was he.
[00:08:57] Speaker C: So he was working, too.
But you were. Was his money going? Did you have joint bank accounts?
[00:09:03] Speaker B: Yeah, we had joint bank accounts. I handled all the finances. But he did contribute spending.
[00:09:09] Speaker C: Oh, okay.
[00:09:10] Speaker B: Yeah. I didn't get to buy anything that I liked or wanted. It was usually a fight. Like, even if I wanted, like, a red rug for the kitchen, I would. We would just argue about it.
[00:09:21] Speaker C: Well, because God forbid you put color in your kitchen.
[00:09:23] Speaker B: Exactly. I mean, everything that I wanted to buy, it would be an argument. It'd be the simplest things, too, like a table and chairs. I would have to look at every table and chair that ever existed and never buy the table and chairs because he would just find a reason that he didn't like it. Yeah.
[00:09:38] Speaker A: So how long were y' all married?
[00:09:40] Speaker B: For more than 10 years. So we were together for a little bit over 15 years. Oh, my gosh.
[00:09:48] Speaker C: After the first kid. Because you said first, so I'm assuming there's more.
[00:09:51] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:09:51] Speaker C: Okay, so after the first child, did he change at all, or did it, like, help? I mean, I know a lot of times having kids makes everything more stressful.
[00:10:00] Speaker B: So, yeah, the kids definitely amplified the problems because I could no longer. I was spread too thin. I could no longer do everything at the house, do everything for the kids and work and do everything that he wanted to do it. No, he. He. He didn't change, and I wanted to stay home, and he did not want me to stay home because that Meant less money to spend.
[00:10:22] Speaker A: Ah. How did he treat the children?
[00:10:24] Speaker B: So with my daughter, she's very much like me, so he very much treated her like he treats me, which is not great.
[00:10:34] Speaker C: So he has an issue with the women.
[00:10:35] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:10:38] Speaker C: I know someone else like that, too.
[00:10:42] Speaker B: So by the time we had our second.
Our second child was born with some special needs. So that. Further, like, I completely devoted all of my time to the children, especially because there's special needs involved, too. So I was just full on. Children, children, children, children, children.
And I remember specifically saying, hey, you got to do something around here.
[00:11:10] Speaker C: Literally anything. Like, metal, like.
[00:11:15] Speaker B: Yes. And we started paying other people to do, you know, things around the house and outside and then inside, I was like, you got to do one chore. You gotta. You gotta pick one chore. And we picked out the chore. And I swear it was a fight every night for him to do the dishes.
And it was just so I found. I just gave up. I was like, I'll continue doing everything. I'll continue taking care of the children and doing all the housework and making sure everything gets done around here. He would even say things like, I don't know how to do laundry. Like, it's not rocket science. He pressed the power button, and he impressed.
[00:11:50] Speaker C: Yeah. Literally put them in. You throw some detergent on it that doesn't have Clorox in it, and you're good.
[00:11:55] Speaker B: Yes. It's super easy, not hard.
So we went like that forever. And I think, you know, with me being spread so thin, the emotional relationships that he was having outside just really started to impact it too.
[00:12:10] Speaker C: Well, because that's cheating. Emotional relationships is cheating. And we call them work wives.
[00:12:13] Speaker B: And.
[00:12:14] Speaker C: And my thing is, is most of the time, when there's an emotional one, especially in a work life situation, that means there's also a physical one. It's just being hidden because a lot of people do stuff, like in a stairwell, behind closed doors. Like, stuff happens at work all the time. So I know my dick. He would tell me that other people were having relationships with the nurse that worked where he worked. And I was like, are you now looking back, I'm like, were you confessing?
[00:12:40] Speaker B: Mm.
Yeah. I find that their accusations are usually their confessions.
[00:12:46] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:12:46] Speaker B: Too in my situation. Like, everything I've been accused of, I could easily show the proof. That's what he's been doing to me.
[00:12:53] Speaker C: That's my favorite when you have proof. But they're like, no, I didn't. Literally. Here it is. Nope, that wasn't me.
Me and Bri showed up together, like, on a date, because Dick asked Bree out again because he forgot about it. And so me and Bri both showed up, and I was like, hey. Because I couldn't get a hold of him, and he wasn't paying me. And I was like, hey, you need to pay me money.
And we show up, and he's like, I don't know what you're talking about. And I'm like. He's like, I never liked her before. I'm like, it's literally how we met. Because you asked her on a date while you were married to me.
Like, they just. They're. They're insane.
[00:13:26] Speaker B: They are. Like, I would find that. You know, I think he has just a serious problem with lying, and he doesn't even realize sometimes that he's lying. Like, he would do things. Like, I would ask him, pick up milk on your way home, and when he came in the door, I'd be like, where's the milk? He'd be like, oh, I forgot. He didn't really forget. He just thought it would be funny to say he forgot. And then he forgot to tell me that that was a joke. So then there was milk in the car for three days. I was like, why? Why would you choose to lie about getting milk from the store?
[00:13:54] Speaker A: Get your ass back in that car and go get some milk.
[00:13:57] Speaker C: I don't understand why. And then that's a waste of money. You're letting the milk go bad for a joke.
[00:14:01] Speaker B: Yeah. And it's not funny.
[00:14:03] Speaker C: No. It's gaslighting you. Like, he's gaslighting you. That is insane.
[00:14:08] Speaker B: And a lot of the, like, emotional cheating and stuff that was going on, it got to, like, a point where he would. He was especially, like, involved with this one coworker, and he lied about knowing that she was pregnant. He was talking. I was reading his messages because I was like, I. I know something's going on. He was talking to her about her husband, her children, like, giving her all this emotional support, saying that he would, like, give her rides, places. I mean, and he. She was the first person he was texting in the morning. They're texting, like, way late at night.
[00:14:41] Speaker C: Well, shame on her, because she obviously knows he's married with kids, and she's married with kids. So, like, whoever you are, shame on you. Say it again. Bri.
[00:14:49] Speaker A: She was pregnant.
[00:14:50] Speaker C: Yeah. Is that right?
[00:14:51] Speaker B: Yes. Yeah.
[00:14:54] Speaker D: No.
[00:14:55] Speaker B: So it was just all very odd. And during this time is the time that I was dealing with. It was during COVID time and dealing with my son's special needs and all those factors on that.
And while we were learning about his needs and his diagnosis, he would tell me, like, I can't tell anybody. Don't tell anybody what's happening with our son. Don't tell your family. Don't tell anybody. And that was one of his tactics that he used. Like, our whole relationship with was to, like, isolate me from my family. I didn't have any friends at all.
[00:15:28] Speaker C: Yeah, that sucks.
[00:15:30] Speaker B: He would tell me, like, my, my family used to do weekly lunches. He'd be like, don't go. Like, why? Like, don't go. And he, when we had our first fight, he said, don't tell your mom. I was like. And I, I, I did not pick up on all these red flags initially, but, like, looking back, it's pure, like, isolation. I had nobody.
[00:15:48] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:15:48] Speaker B: And Covid, like, really highlighted that as well, because we're going through this diagnosis. I have to do everything by myself anyways because of COVID And then he was like, don't tell anybody. But then I found out he was telling everybody. He was telling this coworker in particular, like, she. He was telling her all the details. He gave her, like, a play by play of my birth, of my child, like, how many centimeters I was dilated, like, what was happening, play by play.
Why?
[00:16:17] Speaker C: Like, I mean, like, as her being, like, basically the other woman at this point. Why would she even want to know that?
[00:16:24] Speaker B: Exactly. And I would ask him, I asked him straight out. I was like, are you cheating on me with your co worker because you're doing X, Y, and Z. I need to know.
And he would not confess. Like, he would tell me, I didn't see a text message I saw, or I didn't know that he was walking away to call her, that these things weren't happening. And I knew they were happening.
And I remember very clearly, like, I was holding my son like, like during COVID while we're going through all this. And I was like, I need to leave. But my children were so young that I was like, I can't. Yeah, I can't leave now. My, Like, I cannot give up my, you know, time with my kids at this moment. Yeah, it just was not the right time. But I knew I needed to, to leave.
[00:17:12] Speaker C: Well, and I think that's something important that a lot of women deal with, because I have a close friend of mine who dealt with the same thing. Her husband had an had. She stayed with him because her kids are so young. And she said the hardest thing for her is that she doesn't want to give up. She doesn't want to share holidays. She doesn't want to give up time with her kids. And I think that's something a lot of women especially struggle with, because we know men don't, because men will bounce on their families in a heartbeat.
But as a woman and you giving birth to those children and being their mother, like, you're like, no, I don't want to not have my kids. And God forbid, like, you go to court and they don't even want the kid, but they're going to be nasty and try to take the kid from you anyway just because they know that's what you want.
[00:17:50] Speaker B: Right. And I feel like it got to, like, a point the last year that, you know, I. I had enough, and I kept saying the things like, I feel like, you're ungrateful.
You don't appreciate what I do. I am tired. I am, like, physically tired, emotionally tired. I need more support. I need more.
And I. I was even Googling, like, how do you talk to somebody that constantly just disregard your feelings?
[00:18:17] Speaker C: How do you talk to a narcissist?
[00:18:19] Speaker B: Yes, exactly.
So I was trying to put in all this effort, and the more. The more that I said, like, I feel, I want, I need, the worse it got.
Like, the worse that he would tell me my feelings, you know, aren't valid. They don't matter.
And it got to a point where my children, they're still very young at this point, they would stand in between me and him, and they would say, like, don't talk to my mom that way. Be nice to my mom.
[00:18:50] Speaker A: Wow.
[00:18:51] Speaker B: So they even saw it, and I was like, at this point, I, like, I cannot be in a relationship like this and show my children that this is okay.
[00:19:00] Speaker C: Right.
[00:19:00] Speaker A: But when a child is intervening and stepping between the two, it's like that, like, all. All the flags should be going off at that point, because that's. I couldn't imagine. Which I'm sure, you know, kids, I feel like nowadays, they're more aware.
Like, they're. I feel like they're more aware than, like, what I was as a child. Like, yeah, my parents, you know, they fought and argued and stuff, but nowadays it's like, they're. They're so different. But it's good that they, you know, would stand up for you and, you know, get between the two of you and tell him, you know, you can't talk to her like that.
[00:19:30] Speaker C: When that would happen, what would he do? Would he get mad at the kids?
He.
[00:19:34] Speaker B: He would try to play it off as, like, were all crazy. Like, you know, and he would even put up his hand and be like, you're acting crazy right now.
[00:19:43] Speaker C: So he told the kids they were acting crazy. Oh, no. So he's gaslighting the children too. That's insane.
[00:19:48] Speaker B: Yeah. So it would get to the point, like, in our conversations, like, it would be like, breaching on the topic of divorce, but he would always say, I will fight you.
You're going to. To up the kids, sir.
[00:20:03] Speaker C: You're already fucking up the kids.
[00:20:05] Speaker A: You're already fucking everything up.
[00:20:06] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, he knows, and it's no secret, you know, the only thing that I care about are the children.
[00:20:13] Speaker C: Well, yeah, of course.
[00:20:15] Speaker B: So that would be his line every time, you know, if you want to leave me, if you want a divorce, I will fight you for the kids, and you are going to mess them up for the rest of their lives if you, you know, leave me and get a divorce.
[00:20:27] Speaker C: But, like, why don't. Why do you want to stay with me? Like, you don't like me.
[00:20:30] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:20:31] Speaker C: Like, this is weird. It's control. I mean, we know why it's control, because narcissists love control. So.
[00:20:36] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:20:36] Speaker A: So did you confront him about the cheating? Like, how did. How did that come about?
[00:20:41] Speaker B: I. I did confront him a few times, and just every time it was gaslighting me into. I didn't see what I saw. It's nothing. Nothing's going on. You know, he would just lie and lie and lie, and I.
I would say very directly, like, I'm not comfortable with this relationship. And then he would twist it back on me. Well, you're just very jealous.
[00:21:03] Speaker C: Yeah. Yep. Yeah. Would follow half naked girls all the time on Instagram, and I would say something and be like, that's just not okay. And he'd be like, oh, you're just jealous. You're just insecure. And then come to find out he was DMing all of them. So, yeah, he's probably paying for him too.
[00:21:16] Speaker A: And he claimed it was all just like, the Instagram models. And then there were girls that we knew, like, they were mutual friends who would post like, a picture in a bathing suit.
[00:21:24] Speaker D: And.
[00:21:24] Speaker A: And he was on there liking all of the photos. Yeah, it's like, no, you don't just like a picture of a tattoo between her boobs because she's a friend.
[00:21:32] Speaker C: Right.
[00:21:33] Speaker A: You're married.
[00:21:34] Speaker C: Right. They don't.
[00:21:35] Speaker B: They.
[00:21:35] Speaker C: Social media has ruined relationships, but that's a whole other story. But my thing with him is so did you ever. Not that it matters, because emotional cheating is still cheating, but did you ever find out if there was anything actually physical that happened? Were you able to ever get proof?
[00:21:49] Speaker B: I didn't. And I think a lot of this is kind of like me being scared to have the confrontation to like, do the proof because I, I didn't think it would matter as much as it does matter when you're going through these situations. And I just, I didn't want to confront it because I, I am an avoider. I mean, yeah, that's probably, you know, why I got into a relationship. I did. I, I didn't want to rock the boat, you know, instead of just saying, I like to eat spaghetti, I just didn't eat spaghetti.
[00:22:17] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah. I think that happens a lot with like avoidance or people pleasers. You know, that, that situation, they end up a lot of times with the narcissist, but like, I'm not like ended up with a narcissist, so I think it, it really doesn't matter. Like sometimes we just fall for the wrong people and then once we're with them, it's very hard to leave.
[00:22:36] Speaker B: It is.
[00:22:36] Speaker C: And especially once you add children to it.
[00:22:38] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:22:39] Speaker C: So. And, and when that other person is using a child as leverage, which is disgusting. Like, nobody should ever use children as leverage.
[00:22:46] Speaker A: Constant push and pull bond. Like, oh, but you know, I'll give you everything that you want. Then they like, they take it right back from you and it makes you clear want it even more like that connection.
[00:22:56] Speaker C: So, yeah, especially like a lot of times, at least for me, I have to keep reminding myself that the person I fell in love with doesn't exist. And that's really hard to come to, to like wrap your mind around.
[00:23:05] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:23:06] Speaker C: So, yeah, I think that's something that we, apparently, all three of us, plus I'm sure everybody else struggles with is, is that situation.
So you said that it matters more. So like, is emotional cheating not really count for anything as far as the court system goes?
[00:23:24] Speaker B: It does not.
So it, this kind of goes where it all blew up almost two years ago. Now in this time, I, I just given up. It was around the holidays. I was like, I don't even care that it's Christmas right now. Like, I don't want to do anything. I don't feel excited about doing anything.
[00:23:43] Speaker C: That sucks.
[00:23:44] Speaker B: I, I just don't. I just want a way out, but I don't have a way out. And it just so happened that around the same time that someone that I knew in High school reached out to me, and he said something to me that, I mean, I have not received, like, a compliment in years and years and years and years and years. And he just said something so simple, like, you're always. You've always been too smart. And that just kind of like, broke me because I was. I was like. I have not heard anybody say anything nice about me.
[00:24:16] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:24:16] Speaker B: And, like, 15 years, like, I've just been put down so much that I.
[00:24:21] Speaker C: It breaks you.
[00:24:21] Speaker B: It does. It does.
And I didn't. I didn't think about myself in a positive way either.
And so I started talking to this person more and more and more, and I started to remember, like, I like the color green. Like, I used to like the color green.
And I like to buy books. Like, I have not bought a book in 15 years.
[00:24:48] Speaker C: Oh, my. Oh, my God.
[00:24:50] Speaker B: I know.
[00:24:50] Speaker C: I am so sorry. That is like, my worst nightmare. Like, I just. Oh, my God. We could definitely talk books after this, because I obviously love books, but.
[00:24:59] Speaker B: Yeah, so I gave up everything I loved. And I think, like, some of the simplest way to put it for me is like, he never even let me pick the song in the car. Like, I. I stopped listening to music I liked. I didn't have the colors I liked around me. I didn't have books.
I wasn't eating what I liked. And it just kind of was like this epiphany for me. Like, I can do the things that I like, and that's okay.
And he found out that I was. I was talking to this person. I was very honest. I said, yes, I am not crossed a line.
Like a physical line, but haven't crossed.
[00:25:36] Speaker C: Any line you haven't crossed.
[00:25:37] Speaker B: Right.
And I was very honest about it.
I asked him to leave the home.
It took two weeks for him to leave. And it took me a grain to go to therapy for him to leave.
And so we started this. This therapy journey.
And he wanted a timeline, and he wanted a plan, and he wanted me to document everything in this word document and send it back to him and tell him what I'm going to do. And then he was just like, a constant, like, buying me flowers and gifts and saying he's, oh, so sorry and I deserve better.
[00:26:15] Speaker C: Oh, look at that.
Look at that. And my thing. So in therapy, did he tell the truth? Because narcissists usually don't.
[00:26:21] Speaker B: No, he, like, everything. The therapist was validating everything that I said. And he wanted to change therapists?
[00:26:28] Speaker C: Yes. Yes.
Yeah, he wants to change therapists because a lot of them refuse to Tell the truth. And that's. My ex told me he was going to therapy, and I was like, you lie.
But even if go once, like, congratulations, I guarantee you didn't go again. Because if you told the truth, you wouldn't like it.
[00:26:44] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:26:45] Speaker C: Because therapy doesn't work unless you tell the truth.
[00:26:47] Speaker B: Right. And she even, like, diagnosed. She. She even told him, like, you have a controlling personality.
[00:26:53] Speaker C: Uhhuh.
[00:26:54] Speaker B: Absolutely everything he was complaining about with me, she's like, don't you think? Like, she's been the one doing everything? She's just trying to make a plan. She's not trying to control you. She's informing you.
And she just validated everything that I said. I remember saying, like, very honestly to him, I said, you were just not a nice person. And I don't mean that to me. I mean that to anybody. Like, you are not a nice person to anybody at all.
And then he went on this apology tour.
[00:27:22] Speaker C: Everybody, of course it is, because he doesn't want to look bad. So whenever you get divorced, he wants it to be like, oh, poor guy. Like, he. He tried to right his wrongs.
[00:27:31] Speaker B: Yes. And you've actually nailed it right on the head, because that's where we're heading.
[00:27:35] Speaker C: Good God.
[00:27:37] Speaker A: Let me ask you this really quick. How did he treat his mother?
[00:27:40] Speaker B: So his mother relationship is very complicated, I guess. His biological mom, he has no relationship with, and she has some mental disability, according to him. I've never met her.
And so he cut her off at a very young age. He has a stepmom, but he doesn't have, like, a good relationship with his parents, his dad, or his stepmom. I think my family was, to him the most family he's ever had. And even though, you know, it was very obvious, he was never kind to them either. He was very disrespectful to them, rude to them, cut them down. Like, he would cut me down.
[00:28:22] Speaker C: Did they see it and say anything to you? Did they ever say, like, hey, this doesn't seem healthy?
[00:28:27] Speaker B: No. And I know my mom, in particular has a lot of regrets about that because she feels like I learned it from her, which is probably true.
[00:28:36] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:28:36] Speaker B: Because when I asked him to leave the house. My parents are also divorced, and I couldn't understand. They got divorced when I was an adult, and I couldn't understand why they're getting divorced, why my mom was so adamant that she could not be around my dad. But when I asked him to leave and he left, I had this, like, aha moment, because I was like, oh, My God, I understand it now because there's just such a peace. When he left, like, it was. It was great.
[00:29:01] Speaker C: You were like, oh, my God, I can breathe.
[00:29:02] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:29:03] Speaker C: I can buy the color green.
[00:29:04] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:29:04] Speaker A: I can do whatever I want.
[00:29:06] Speaker B: Yes. I can eat spaghetti on a Tuesday and watch a movie.
[00:29:10] Speaker A: Get that red kitchen rug.
[00:29:12] Speaker C: Yeah.
Seriously.
[00:29:14] Speaker B: So after he left, we did this therapy for a little bit. And I. I kept saying, I don't know what I want. I. I really just want to be left alone. And that's the one thing he would not do, is leave me alone.
[00:29:27] Speaker C: Shocking.
[00:29:27] Speaker B: It was constant, like, paragraphs upon paragraphs of emails and text messages and document a plan. And we need to fix this. And I want to date you again. And all of this, too.
[00:29:42] Speaker C: A little too late, bro. You had 15 years. Damn.
[00:29:44] Speaker B: Exactly. And I.
[00:29:46] Speaker A: When women are done, we're done.
[00:29:48] Speaker C: Yep.
[00:29:48] Speaker A: Like, we've tried telling you.
[00:29:50] Speaker C: Yep.
[00:29:50] Speaker B: I know. And I said it for years and years and years, and it wasn't until I was like, I'm done, done, that he gave any effort into it. And it wasn't my. And I said this in therapy, too. My concern is your effort is not real.
It's just not real. Like, you're saying it because you want me to get back together with you, not because you genuinely care about me.
[00:30:09] Speaker C: Or that you actually want to change. Like, you're. Like, you may change for a minute, but it's gonna go right back to the way it was.
[00:30:15] Speaker B: Exactly.
And so after he left, about a month after he left the home, I made the decision to meet up with the guy that I was talking to.
And that just kind of blew everything up. Because of course, he found out about it because he was. He was stalking me.
[00:30:33] Speaker C: Oh, fun.
[00:30:34] Speaker B: So. And that's still kind of an ongoing thing also. So that. That is real fun.
[00:30:40] Speaker C: Like, he still actively stalks you.
[00:30:41] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:30:42] Speaker C: But don't you worry. He comes knocking on this door, he gonna have a rude awakening.
[00:30:45] Speaker B: And so after, you know, this happened, I met up with the person that I was talking to.
I. I filed a protection order against him because it just escalated to a point where I was scared. Like, I was scared what he was going to do to me, what he was going to do to the children. I could not have him at the house, just showing up whenever he wanted to.
[00:31:06] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:31:06] Speaker B: So I got a temporary protection order, and the judge told me, you need to file for a divorce. So I did. I filed for a divorce. And I asked for basically, like, standard physical custody schedule, which would be me primary, primarily having the kids and then, like, shared legal custody and then everything else, just 50. 50. Fair.
And I did that because he's never shown any interest in the kids before. He's never helped with anything before.
He actually said to me at one point that I needed to break the bond with my daughter because it was too strong.
[00:31:44] Speaker C: What?
[00:31:45] Speaker A: Hell, no. Nope, nope, nope.
[00:31:47] Speaker C: That's.
So he was not only isolating you from your family and friends, he was trying to isolate you from your own children.
[00:31:54] Speaker B: He still does.
[00:31:54] Speaker A: So he could brainwash them.
[00:31:56] Speaker C: Oh, my God. He's still doing it.
[00:31:58] Speaker B: Yeah. So one of the first things he did, you know, when we started going down this path of divorce, was to contact my brothers.
And he. He knew exactly what he needed to say to my brothers to get them to not talk to me anymore, and that's what he did.
[00:32:16] Speaker A: Your own brothers.
[00:32:17] Speaker B: So, yeah, I haven't. Haven't talked to my brothers in maybe, like, two years now.
[00:32:23] Speaker C: Does your mom know?
[00:32:25] Speaker B: So my brothers haven't talked to my mom in a long time because they are upset about my mom's divorce.
[00:32:30] Speaker C: Okay.
[00:32:31] Speaker B: It's just kind of like a pattern of.
[00:32:32] Speaker A: They all have some issues then.
[00:32:34] Speaker C: Okay, so men are judging women who get divorced. That's what I'm hearing.
[00:32:38] Speaker B: Yes. I. It was very much of, how dare you, as a woman, not just step back into line to work out your marriage.
[00:32:48] Speaker C: Because it's 1950.
[00:32:50] Speaker A: They hate to see me coming. I've been divorced three times. They would hate to see me come.
[00:32:58] Speaker B: It was very much.
As soon as I made it clear that divorce is what I wanted, it became a thousand times worse. Like, things I would never have guessed he would do. He did. One of them being just total isolation from my family. The only person that talks to me anymore is my mom and my dad.
[00:33:19] Speaker C: Shame on them.
[00:33:20] Speaker B: Yes. Yes. It's part of, like, going through. If you just Google divorcing a narcissist. He checked every box. He got the high conflict, expensive lawyer to drag me through all the nasty letters, discovery depositions, all while telling everybody that I won't agree to anything, that I. I don't want to be amicable, that I'm keeping the children from him. I'm doing all these. These things that he's, in fact, doing to me.
And we. We get to. I'm just agreeing to everything I'm saying. You can have all the property. You can have all the money.
[00:34:01] Speaker C: You just want out?
[00:34:03] Speaker B: I want out. And I want the children.
You know, the children have had a stable, consistent, you know, life with how we were doing things. He's never been involved at this point. Like, I'm still convinced. Like, he only wants the children because he knows that's the only way to hurt me.
[00:34:23] Speaker C: Yeah, well, probably. And that's the sad. Because then they're going to be neglected when they're with him.
[00:34:28] Speaker A: That's insane. And I don't understand families that will literally take up for somebody who's not their family, you know, like, yes, y' all were together for a while, but you are their family. He married into that.
That is mind blowing.
[00:34:44] Speaker C: It really is my first marriage, because I forget that I was married the first time, so. So long ago. Um, but my first marriage did that. I lost an aunt and uncle, and I have not talked to them in actually, September. This September is 10 years. And is my mom's brother. And I've not spoken to him or his wife. And he hasn't even talked to my mom. But he still goes with my ex, help pay for his second wedding, which he got married on my dad's birthday, so that's weird. And then he helps him, like, still sees him at Christmas and everything else. So, like, I lost them, but I can't imagine, like, I don't have siblings, so I can't imagine what that would be like to lose, like, your brothers to that. But it's just insane to me when people are literally like, no, you're getting divorced, so I want nothing to do with you. Like, you know. And you know what, half the time, they're calling the kettle black.
[00:35:32] Speaker B: Yep.
[00:35:33] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely.
[00:35:36] Speaker C: So you're still dealing with everything to this day.
[00:35:40] Speaker B: Yeah. So we. This is actually very low percentage of, like, divorce, custody go to trial. I went to trial. I think it's, like, less than 5% go.
[00:35:49] Speaker C: Why? Like, because he just wouldn't settle.
[00:35:50] Speaker B: He would not settle. We did mediation for seven to eight hours. We got to the last. The last item, and he just. He would not agree. Like, at every time that we would get, like, close to a settlement, he would change the goal. He would change, like, their reasoning. He would change what he wanted. And then it kind of got to this. We were a couple of months before our first trial, and he got a girlfriend.
And his defense in our divorce was, she's 100% at fault. Because I was openly saying, hey, I'm in a relationship with somebody else. I want to move on. I'm done with you. I've moved on. We're separated. We're finished. We're done. I mean, it's over.
And so he was like, well, she cheated on me and it's all her fault and I should get more. I should get more money and she should get all the debt.
And during this time, he got a girlfriend.
[00:36:51] Speaker C: So isn't that still cheating because you're still married legally?
[00:36:54] Speaker B: Well, if I'm doing it and I'm a cheater, then if he's doing it, he should also be a cheater.
[00:36:59] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:37:02] Speaker A: As long as you're separated, it's not considered adultery.
[00:37:05] Speaker B: Well, that's what I was told by a lawyer.
But what happened to me after he got the girlfriend? He. He would not let me do video calls with the children anymore on. On his time with the children. So I have actually not done that in over a year with my children. When I don't have them with me, he started. He stopped paying for things. Like, legally, when you file for divorce, however things are paid, it's still paid until you're divorced. I had to pay for his car insurance.
He wouldn't pay for anything. Regarding the children, he let me pay for everything.
[00:37:41] Speaker C: But how could the judge not use that against him?
[00:37:44] Speaker B: Yeah, it gets interesting.
[00:37:49] Speaker A: Can you have visitors at your next trial?
[00:37:51] Speaker B: I promise you, I will never go back to court alone. So we go all the way through mediation. We do depositions. It's awful. It's terrible. I get a text message, an email from him. I have anxiety. I can't open it. I can't read it. I can't. I haven't talked to him on the phone. I don't want to look at him. Like, it's so traumatizing. Yeah, but we go through the trial and I know that he has a girlfriend. I know that, like, this is happening. I honestly, I don't care. Like, I just, I thought if I presented my evidence as, hey, I've been the primary person for my special needs son. I have all this evidence of what he's been doing.
He admitted that he was harassing me, that he was stalking me, and that he even, like, physically attacked me at one point in our home before I asked him to leave. Like, he admitted to all of this on the record.
And we have a three day trial. I have all these witnesses, all this evidence. I had a expert witness testify that, hey, these two people never should have been married. Like, they're just not compatible.
And he got, he got on the stand and he said, knowing that he has a girlfriend, he says this, if it wasn't for her, we would still be married. We'd be perfectly happy if she had good judgment and didn't want to be with this other person and she, she just, she doesn't have good judgment right now and it's all her fault. And I should get more money. I shouldn't have to pay anything back that I didn't pay.
And I want, you know, the custody that I want, the decision making that I want.
And that, that's really all he had to say to the judge. And the judge signed his.
[00:39:36] Speaker C: Was the judge a man?
[00:39:37] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:39:37] Speaker C: Oh, shocking.
[00:39:39] Speaker A: There you go.
[00:39:40] Speaker C: But my thing is, is you have, you weren't neglected in this marriage.
And also, he was already emotionally cheating with his co workers. Like, did he have proof that you did anything physical?
[00:39:52] Speaker B: I admitted to it.
[00:39:53] Speaker C: Oh.
[00:39:53] Speaker B: I mean, like, but I, I was honest. Like, I'm just a.
[00:39:56] Speaker C: You're an honest person.
[00:39:57] Speaker B: And I was told by my lawyers, like, I didn't do anything wrong. We were separated. It shouldn't matter at all. Like, there's no, like, I was very upfront about.
[00:40:07] Speaker C: See, I was told by my attorney that even if you're separated, it has to be a certain amount of time.
[00:40:12] Speaker B: Yeah. I wish that the attorneys in this town, we're all on the same page.
[00:40:18] Speaker C: Yeah.
Yeah.
[00:40:20] Speaker B: They are not.
[00:40:21] Speaker C: Well, if you need a new one, we got one for you.
[00:40:23] Speaker B: Yeah. So, yeah, I'm terrified to go back, to be honest.
So we got our, our decision and he, he got final decision makings in, in key areas. And most people that are divorced, they, they can't even tell you what decision making, final decision making they get. And the way it's supposed to work is you have a discussion, if you disagree, then that person gets final say. The way that it has been working for us is that he's going to tell me what's going to happen. And no matter what I say, he will disagree with. And he invokes final decision making everywhere.
Everywhere we go. School, dentist, doctor's office. And everybody's like, well, we don't want to get involved.
Yeah. So I, he did, he revoked, you know, services that my child had at school just unilaterally. He revoked them that he had been getting for two and a half years for his needs. Yes. And he said, you know, basically, whatever she says, I disagree with.
And I, I've been fighting this kind of all year long.
And I had filed some motions and emergency motion, too, to try to change decision making so that I could put it back in place, you know, before the news.
[00:41:37] Speaker C: This is for a kid.
[00:41:38] Speaker B: Yes. Young, young, young, young child.
And so we went back to court this summer, but not before, you Know, I was dragged through another deposition and the same pattern of harassment that goes along with all that.
And I went back to court and he had filed, you know, contempt charges against me because over the summer I put my kids in some summer activities and I didn't ask his permission before I did it. And I didn't think I needed to. Well, anyways, because I shouldn't need to, right? But because it was just on my time and I'm paying for everything on my own, it had no impact on him. He didn't need to take them anywhere. There's no like performance or anything that goes. It's just a summer activity. But he filed contempt against me for that. And at the same time that I'm filing a motion, you know, to get decision making change so my son can have services back.
And so we go back to court for another three day trial.
And he had people from the school testify, and they did not testify favorably about me.
So I'm not sure what he told them, but they made statements like, I view my child as severely disabled, which is not a true statement at all.
And that I was acting out because they read my divorce papers, which is, it's common for the school to have your divorce papers for custody.
And so we do this three day trial. And again, I had, I had a lawyer who's like, I don't know how you can't win because how does he get up there and justify that he took away all these services that the child needs?
How do you justify that to a judge? Right, so we do the three day trial.
[00:43:29] Speaker C: Is it the same judge?
[00:43:30] Speaker B: You have the same judge for the life of your case, which is so fun.
[00:43:36] Speaker A: Are you able to request a new judge?
[00:43:38] Speaker B: No, I have not found a way to do that yet.
So we do the three day trial. The judge says, yeah, you probably shouldn't have done that. You probably shouldn't have taken away the services. You should probably give him the services.
But I'm not going to change anything. And by the way, mom, you are in contempt and I'm going to give you a jail sentence and. But I'll suspend it for two years as long as you obey the order.
[00:44:07] Speaker A: Are you shitting me?
[00:44:09] Speaker B: No.
[00:44:11] Speaker C: What the fuck is wrong with our legal system in Alabama, man?
[00:44:14] Speaker B: I had advocate tell me that. So when I got the contempt order, I told my lawyer, I said, I'm gonna go to jail. Like, this judge is gonna put me in jail. He's like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
So at this point, like, I appealed the first decision, and that's pending. That's been pending since. For a couple months now.
But after going through the second round, which it was originally supposed to be just like an emergency hearing, which is not a final thing. It's a temporary thing. But the judge said we're going to do a final hearing after I got my decision. You know, I'm finding out, like, that's not legal.
He didn't actually have jurisdiction because I have a pending appeal already.
So we never should. Even had the trial. We never should have been able to, like, do anything at all because I'm already appealing his first decision.
So.
[00:45:05] Speaker C: So what does that mean? Like, so now when you go back to court, what is the, like, prognosis at this point? Like, what is the point?
[00:45:15] Speaker B: Well, I'm hoping I never go back to court in front of this judge. My only remedies now are to appeal, which I have the current appeal.
And I'm kind of in this circle of, I don't know, the decision of that first one, because if I get a favorable one, then it kind of cancels this all out.
[00:45:33] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:45:33] Speaker B: But if I don't get a favorable decision in my way, then I'm stuck with this second and decision. And I have to start the appeal process on the second decision because there's a time frame. Like, you only have a certain amount of time to appeal it.
[00:45:46] Speaker C: So does the appeal go to a different judge?
[00:45:49] Speaker B: It goes to a different court that has several judges on it.
[00:45:53] Speaker C: When are you supposed to find that out?
[00:45:55] Speaker B: They have an indefinite amount of time to make a decision so that they've had it for several months. There's no time frame on them making a decision. There's a time frame on me submitting my appeals that doesn't make.
[00:46:06] Speaker C: Oh, God, our system's so broken.
[00:46:08] Speaker B: So while I'm waiting on a decision for the first appeal, I have to appeal the second one so I don't run out of time to appeal it.
[00:46:15] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:46:16] Speaker B: Otherwise I'll be stuck. And my lawyer told me, like, you can't do anything right now. I. I can't even take my kids for vaccines right now because he wants to control when I do it, he doesn't disagree with him having it.
[00:46:30] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:46:30] Speaker B: But if I make an appointment at the doctor's office, he calls to cancel it.
And I found out during the last trial that the father's girlfriend got arrested for a DUI last summer, and she just got a court date where she was found guilty this month or recently, and he's letting her drive the Children around and spend time with her.
[00:46:56] Speaker C: Like, how is that okay.
[00:46:59] Speaker B: Exactly. And so the scrutiny and, like, the level of, I don't know, invasiveness into my personal life is not applied to his.
[00:47:09] Speaker C: Yeah, that doesn't make sense, because he should have been, like, found just as guilty for everything that he's done as well, including before you even started talking to this other guy and having an emotional affair with this other guy.
[00:47:22] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:47:22] Speaker A: There's some sort of bias here, though. Something should be able to be filed that there is some sort of bias with the judge to get it turned over to a new judge. There has to be something. There has to be.
[00:47:33] Speaker C: Yeah. I think they'd have to, like, look and see how many women he ruled against and see if they could find a pattern.
So to wrap everything up, what are. What's, like, what's going on? What's your next steps?
[00:47:47] Speaker B: So right now I'm just. I'm in weight mode because I am so scared that if I do anything at all, I mean, I'm going to have a jail sentence.
[00:47:56] Speaker C: Yeah.
And then you're worried at that point you'll lose the kids completely or.
[00:48:01] Speaker B: Yeah, that's my fear, is that we're headed. And there's so many stories like this across, like, the nation. And, I mean, in Alabama, I feel like his goal is to ultimately take the kids from me.
[00:48:12] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:48:13] Speaker B: And this is just, like, one more step to him doing that. And if I go to jail and he files, like, a motion, temporary custody or something like others. I've just read too many horror stories where, like, someone gets a temp temporary custody order and they lose their kids and they're in court for years and years and years and years and years, and they don't see their kids anymore. And I feel like that's where I'm headed, like, with this judge, with this court system, that if I do anything they don't like, and it's likely that whatever I do, they're not going to, like, I'm gonna lose my kids and go to jail.
[00:48:48] Speaker C: That's insane. I'm so sorry that you're having to go through this. I hope that down the road you come back and give us an update and this isn't the case you end up going through, but, you know, this is an awful thing that you're going through. And, you know, if you just need to vent or talk, you can always reach out to us to chat. Like, that's. Nobody should have to go through this alone.
[00:49:11] Speaker B: No.
[00:49:11] Speaker A: And if we have any listeners who could potentially help. I mean, I have no idea, but something.
It makes me sick to think that nothing can be done about this. It really does.
[00:49:21] Speaker C: Yeah. It's obviously not fair and in a very biased way. And also, like, he don't want them kids. He doesn't want those kids. He doesn't want to deal with the special needs. Like he's gonna end up shoving those children onto whoever he's with.
[00:49:33] Speaker A: Brainwash.
[00:49:34] Speaker C: Obviously whoever he's with isn't the smartest person because she has a dui.
Also, shame on her because she's probably like helping feed this. Not going to lie. That's usually how it is. So shame on her.
But.
Well, we thank you for coming on and really hope that, you know, we end up getting some better news down the road with you.
But I hope that it at least made you feel a little better to at least share your story.
[00:49:59] Speaker B: Yeah, it. It does. And thank you guys.
[00:50:02] Speaker C: Yeah, absolutely.
[00:50:04] Speaker A: Sam.
