Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign.
[00:00:17] Speaker B: Welcome back to Spill the Tea HSV with Lauren and Bri.
This episode is proudly brought to you by the law firm Ryan and Rouse. If you or a loved one have been injured or need legal help for changing family circumstances, contact the personal injury and family law attorneys at Ryan and rouse today at 256-801-1000 or visit them online at www.alabamalaw.com. when your future is on the line, don't go.
[00:00:53] Speaker C: This episode is also brought to you by Bridge & Bloom, LLC. Bridge & Bloom Therapy Services is changing the way Madison county thinks about mental health. Co owners Kate and Ashley bring over 20 years of combined experience and a shared belief that healing happens through safety, compassion and connection. Their practice provides evidence based care for a wide range of needs, including trauma treatment with EMDR and brain spotting, support for children navigating high conflict situations, and counseling for couples working through challenges or learning to co parent. Each client receives care tailored to their story in a space where they can feel heard, supported and empowered. To learn more, visit bridgeandbloomllc.com or call 256-469-1877. Again, that's bridgeandbloomllc.Com or call.
[00:01:43] Speaker B: 256-469-18.
[00:01:45] Speaker D: 77.
Avery.
Hey, Lauren. How's.
[00:01:52] Speaker B: It going?
Oh, we're good. You know, it's a. It's another day. Another day in paradise. Yep.
And we are back again with Suzanne Fortnum. And welcome back. She's going to tell us about the.
[00:02:09] Speaker A: Closure myth.
Hi everyone. Hi Lauren. Hi, Bri. It's good to be back.
Before we jump in, just a short disclaimer. The content shared in this podcast is for informational and educational purposes only.
It is not intended as professional advice, diagnosis or treatment. Listeners should consult a qualified professional for guidance regarding their.
[00:02:32] Speaker B: Individual situation. Awesome.
So thanks for joining us yet again. We love having you on and love talking.
[00:02:40] Speaker A: To you. Well, you know, I love being a guest.
[00:02:43] Speaker B: On here.
So tell us, tell us what this closure myth is.
[00:02:48] Speaker A: About. Sure. So how many of us have said, I just need closure before I can.
[00:02:55] Speaker B: Move on? Me.
[00:02:56] Speaker D: It's.
[00:02:57] Speaker A: Me. Same.
I bet a lot of women listening right now are like, right here. This could be after a breakup, after someone ghosts you after you find out about your partner having an affair.
But we picture this scene where we finally get to sit down with the person and they explain everything, apologize sincerely, and then we can breathe again.
But in reality, does what we're feeling actually actually go away? Do we feel like it's done, that we have.
[00:03:33] Speaker B: Closure Nope. You sure don't.
I mean, I've talked to Dick several times. Still no closure. Also, I just don't believe anything he says. So every time I talk to him, I'm like, more lies. Oh, yeah. So that. So, no, I don't think that it actually helps. I don't think that there's any such thing as actual closure when it comes to that. Right. So what. What do we do? What's. What. What. What's going. Like, how do we. How do we get closure? How do we.
[00:03:57] Speaker A: Move on?
Well, that's what we're gonna talk about today. I've seen people finally get that conversation. Like, you just alluded to Lauren, that they're desperate for.
And a lot of times, instead of feeling better afterwards, they end up leaving it feeling worse. And this can be because the answer is not what they're wanting, hoping for.
It's vague, defensive, sometimes even cruel.
Sometimes the person who hurt you simply doesn't have the insight to give you what it is you're needing and looking for.
Other times, they might be more focused on protecting themselves than giving.
[00:04:41] Speaker D: You peace.
I feel like they're so wrapped up in, like, protecting their reputation and who they are, and they avoid, like, taking that accountability for what they did to you, and so you'd never get that closure that you need. That final conversation where they take the accountability, where they apologize for everything and try to at least be civil and.
[00:05:05] Speaker B: Make amends.
And the thing is, you can even, like, be civil. Like, you know, when I saw Dick, it wasn't like we were yelling at each other, like we were just having a conversation.
But then everything's an excuse.
Oh, well, why haven't you paid me, like, you owe me, legally owe me money? And it's, oh, well, I've been, you know, doing this. I've had this. I've had this reason. I've had this reason. And it's just constant excuses. And I'm like, I even called him out on it, said, well, you got a new hand tattoo. So obviously you got that. Well, that was free. I traded something for it, right? Like, you know, and I told him, I said, you had the money at one point, but you would rather spend the money on these other women or on material goods than paying back the woman who actually got in debt taking care of you for four years.
And for me, I think the closure is never going to come because I'm financially.
So don't do that to yourself, ladies.
But also, even when it comes to the affairs and stuff that he did, it's there's worth again excuses and, and a lot of men will throw whatever it is back in your face. Like with him trying, he's, you know, trying to say like, oh, well, you know, when you were traveling, I felt abandonment. Oh really? Because I talked to you every single day that I was traveling, no matter what country I was in, and talked to you multiple times a day. But you couldn't keep your dick in your pants. So you ran to another woman while I was in another country that I invited you to. By the way, you were always invited to go with me. But you, you either say made again excuses for not wanting to go. So how, like you said, it doesn't help. So is it. Does it do more harm than good? I guess the only thing for me is at least seeing that it reminds. Every time I talk to him, it reminds me that he's.
[00:06:55] Speaker A: A.
[00:06:55] Speaker B: Liar. Right.
And that he's not a good person. Because sometimes you go back into only remembering the good times and romanticizing the relationship and you're mourning what you thought you had.
And sometimes it's easy to fall back into what you thought you had being real when.
[00:07:11] Speaker A: It wasn't.
Well, absolutely. When we move away from a relationship, as we get distance from it, we often magnify the positive times we had with that person.
So I agree and disagree with you in the. I do think that the closure will come, but I don't think you're gonna get that from him. I think it's gonna take time. And that's one of the hardest things about this, right? Is we can't fast forward time.
But it's that we have to figure it out and find it for ourselves, find that closure.
[00:07:54] Speaker B: For ourselves.
And it's hard with time because like Bri, for you, number three was a much shorter period of time. So a lot of people are probably being like, you should already be over this. It was three. Your relation, your entire relationship is three, four months. Like you should be over it, but there's no time limit on that. And, and I mean even same for me. Like we were together.
[00:08:15] Speaker C: Four.
[00:08:16] Speaker B: Years. Years, but it hasn't even been a year yet from when I. We're almost to a year when I caught him on the date. But. So at this time last year I was still living in a happy.
Well, not really happy, cuz this time last year Helene decimated Asheville, North Carolina. And I was. Didn't know if my parents were alive. So I was terrified. But that brings up a point. During that time, I was terrified that my Parents were dead and I couldn't get a hold of them. And I was stressed out and I was crying all the time and I was getting ready to leave and try to figure out a way to get to Asheville, North Carolina. I was gonna hike through those floods. I was gonna figure it out.
And during this time, he was like, you're being dramatic. They're fine. And he ended up sleeping in our guest room because he said he didn't want me to keep him up all night worrying about my parents.
And he was texting his girlfriends while my parents might be dead. So I didn't know that at the time. And now I've learned that after the fact.
It. It makes it harder to have closure when you keep learning things and then you realize things like, oh, this time that I felt weird about this, this is what he was probably doing.
Right.
And then you can't ask him to get 100% clarity on it because they.
[00:09:38] Speaker A: Lie well. And sometimes when we have these conversations, to your point, like, we get more information from those conversations, but then that information that we get isn't necessarily helpful or healing to.
[00:09:53] Speaker B: Our closure. Right. It could be actually harmful because they could try to put the guilt and the blame on you and depend on, depending on how you, where you are in your process of healing, you could internalize that. Right.
And. And I say all that to say there's no time limit, right.
[00:10:07] Speaker A: For healing. No.
[00:10:08] Speaker B: There'S not. Don't let anyone tell you that there's a time limit on. Well, you were only with this relationship for this period of time you should be over by. Or the, whatever that stupid rule is. Like, it takes half the.
[00:10:18] Speaker A: Amount of time gonna say that. That high school college rule of like, if you were with them for like six months, then when you've got like three months where like you're not gonna get over it. And then when you hit that three month mark.
[00:10:29] Speaker B: You will. Yeah, right. Like there's no, there's no time because we all are affected differently with how deeply it affects us. And also all the situations that it involved, like whether children were involved and you know, financial finances were involved and all those things makes it more complicated because we're not in high school and we're not in.
[00:10:51] Speaker D: College. Right. I feel like a lot of it, or maybe this, I'm probably just speaking for myself, but it feels like it comes in levels of like being able to find that closure because at first there was no closure whatsoever. And I feel like I'm to a point now to where I don't feel like I full blown need that closure because I see how he's living or how I think he's living. And for me, I think that's sort of like my closure. I'm not going to get the, that conversation that I wanted, but seeing how all of that's going down for me, that's.
[00:11:22] Speaker B: My.
[00:11:22] Speaker A: Closure.
Right. And so the closure that they might be handing to you isn't actually closure, but it's what you build for yourself as being.
[00:11:36] Speaker B: The closure. Would it be. Would it be that we may not ever get closure, but maybe we can find acceptance or peace within ourselves for that. Like we just met, you know, you. It's not necessarily closure because we won't ever actually get that. It's maybe acceptance and like finding.
[00:11:57] Speaker A: The peace.
That's.
[00:12:00] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[00:12:00] Speaker A: Correct. It's.
It's finding peace within ourselves and within the life that we build live and going through that process to get that closure and get that healing can be incredibly painful at times.
And I think maybe that's why we go to this idea of like, well, I have this one and done conversation or I've had a conversation, but just, just one more to get clarity on like these couple things.
Then I'll have closure, that chapter will be done and I can.
[00:12:45] Speaker B: Move on.
Yeah. I will say personally seeing Dick last week for the first time since March.
So several months like later have not seen her. Like the last time he text me was in April telling me how much he still, still love me and how he lost me. And I was the biggest. I'm. I'm the one that got away and it was his biggest mistake. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
That was last time I even heard from him. And so then he stopped returning text messages and because I would only text him, I text him once a month asking for my payment and that was it. Like, I don't, I'm not going to sit here and like have a full conversation with you.
I will say, because I had so many things that I wanted to, I wanted him to know that I knew.
I think that's what it was is I wanted him to know he didn't get away with this.
Right. So when I did see him, I just spouted everything that I knew. And you could tell, like in his face he was like, oh, oh, oh. And I was just like, you know, even him in the fourth kid, he's like, oh, I have a fourth kid? I'm like, yeah. And he's like, well, who is it? I'm like, I'm not telling You. I was like, that kid doesn't know you exist. And you wouldn't do that kid any good anyway.
Like, you don't claim the kid you got. Why would I tell you about a kid you don't know about? Like, you know, because at some point, you got to protect the kids. Now, when that kid's an adult, if that kid wants to go find him and figure that out, that's on that kid. But I'm not gonna ruin that kid's life.
And, you know, it's just this. It's just being able to get everything out again. Did feel good being able to tell the woman he was with, hey, this is the type of person you, you're sitting next to just so you have all the information. Because I wish someone had given me that information for her to then say that, like, oh, well, thank you. Because I've been through this before and say, like, we're not actually, like, an item. Like, we've just been hanging out a couple of months. But it's good to know because my ex husband did that to me. And now she wants to come on.
[00:14:37] Speaker A: The podcast. So it felt really validating in the moment, is what.
[00:14:43] Speaker B: I'm hearing. Right in the moment. It was very validating. After the fact. I still now have.
[00:14:48] Speaker A: More.
[00:14:48] Speaker B: Questions. Right. Because of our.
[00:14:50] Speaker A: Conversation.
Right?
More questions. How about.
[00:14:54] Speaker B: More feelings? That too.
It brought out a lot.
I think that's something to talk about too, ladies, is you don't just dictate awful things to me. And there is still a part of me that loves that and that sucks. And I get mad about it. Like, I, I. And that's the other part. You get mad at yourself. I'm like, what the fuck is wrong with me that I still love this man who cheated on me with 20 plus people, hid children, and got me in a massive financial debt to the point that I can't climb out of it. And I even told him, I said, it's weird loving and hating.
[00:15:29] Speaker A: Somebody at the same time and holding space for both of those really strong and intense.
[00:15:36] Speaker B: Emotions, which. And I didn't know that that was possible.
And he has proved that it is, because. And that's, that's the thing is, after the fact, there were moments in our conversation where it was easy to talk to him. And I was just like, see, you get glimpses. You get glimpses of that little bit of what you thought you had. Yeah. And then it makes you more upset because you're like, see, we could have had this. We could have stayed together.
Our lives would have been fine if you would have just kept your dick in your pants.
And, and then it makes you more upset. And then. And also the. Some of the things he told me from this past conversation turned out to be lies yet again.
And I think that that's part of it is he thinks I'm not gonna find out. And then when I do, it's like, like this. Why do we have to keep lying? So then it makes me, then I get more angry again. And then I get angry at myself for feeling love for a man who is an awful human. And so it's a cycle. And I think that's part of why for me personally, closure is going to take literal years. But also the fight if it wasn't for the financial aspect of it and the fact that we live in the same damn city and this city is not that big. I know for a fact I'm going to see him again because we have another event where I know we both have tickets to and I, I know that I'm gonna see him in the future. So it'll be nice one day when I see him and my stomach doesn't drop and my first thought is, oh, there's my husband with another woman.
Right. Like he's not my husband anymore. But that was the literal first thought that, that went through my head before I was like, well, things about to get awkward. I'm gonna go have a conversation.
[00:17:17] Speaker A: Closure sucks.
Yeah.
I mean when you get there and when you're on the other side of it and again, space, time, it is well worth it. But that getting there is so hard.
And it becomes even harder when we have something that tethers us to that person. So Lauren, your like the financial commitment he has to you, right? People who have kids and they have to figure out how to co.
[00:17:52] Speaker D: Parent together. I personally, what makes me question sometimes is because I know it's hard for you to talk about him and to like relive all of that stuff. Like I know how hard that is for you and I know how angry that.
[00:18:06] Speaker A: Makes.
[00:18:06] Speaker D: You.
So.
And Suzanne, tell me if I'm wrong in thinking this way or would it be better like to just get completely out of like are we dating the same guy groups? That way nobody's seeing him constantly be posted. Granted, these women need to know about him, but her mental health and her sanity, would it be better for her not to be in those groups or anything whatsoever of.
[00:18:30] Speaker A: That nature?
That could be a way of having no contact.
[00:18:36] Speaker B: With him. The thing is, is I'm not even in one of those groups, and I still had eight people send it to me.
Well, like, I. I'm still gonna have. I'm still gonna find out, I think. You know, it's funny because that was my first thought. My stomach dropped, but when I was talking, the nerves were gone. Like, I didn't. It's a weird feeling because I'm like, I. There's a part of me that still loves him, but I also.
I felt no ill will towards the woman he was with at all. Like, there was no illustration, jealousy, no, nothing. Like, nothing towards her at all. I was just like, hey, you seem like a cool chick. I don't know you. But, like, just FYI, I think when I do see him in those. In those dating sites where people send it to me, my. Again, my stomach drops at first, but I. I'm able to, like, separate it now. Like, I know he's having sex with other people. I mean, dear God, I'm friends with people who've had sex with him, which a lot of people wouldn't be able to do.
A lot of people wouldn't be able to go over to somebody's house knowing that their husband slept in that bed with.
[00:19:38] Speaker A: That.
[00:19:39] Speaker B: Woman.
Right. But for me, it's. I think because he's had so many affairs, it's easier to just, like, separate the sex piece of it. I think now it's. It's more of, like, feeling used for the finances, right? And.
And the still constant use of finances, because instead of, I would never use somebody for money and then owe them money and then take other women out instead of paying the person I owed.
[00:20:08] Speaker A: Money to. Well, and that's. That's the link still, right? That's what's keeping you tethered to him. And then, like, to breeze question, like, you are hearing about other women, even if they're not going out with him. Like, they're saying, like, you're being sent, like, oh, I just dodged him or this other woman who wants.
[00:20:31] Speaker B: To go.
[00:20:31] Speaker A: Come on. The podcast is like, he obviously, like, spent money to take her to the venue that you saw.
[00:20:38] Speaker B: Him at. Oh, he said that.
[00:20:39] Speaker A: She paid.
Well, that might.
[00:20:43] Speaker B: Be true. That might be true because he's good at making women pay. But, yeah.
Yeah, I don't. There's a part of me that thinks it's what we're doing here is more important than me not knowing, like, what he's doing. And obviously, like, I don't know every single day. Like, I know he's off this weekend, and he's probably Doing God knows what. Like, I don't know what he's up to this weekend or who he's got, like, on his arm this weekend. And I don't give a right.
But what I care about is when he gets paid next Wednesday and what or not he sends me money. Right?
That's what I care about.
But I'm going to be tethered to him for literal years until this money situation is. Is figured out because he's hoping I'll let it go.
And my pride and stubbornness and also just a will to want to teach him a lesson isn't going to let that go.
Right? But. And again, like, I can't hate it. It brought me this.
It brought me my friends. It brought me a lot of the, like, people that I hang out with now and spend my. And I've surrounded myself with and these positive women who give me life and.
And help me get through it. I wouldn't have had if we were still together.
So I guess it's also looking at the silver linings with that knowing, like, I don't have closure fully. And I may never have closure, but I got more out of it because I did put myself out there to, like.
[00:22:06] Speaker A: Find people. So, like, looking at the stuff that you've built for yourself, it took.
[00:22:12] Speaker B: Effort, ladies. It took effort. Like, it wasn't like, you know, it took Bree reaching out to me and me being like, hey, let's go to lunch.
And then being like, hey, I have this idea. I want to be part of it. And then it took me being like, I didn't want to sit at home on a Friday night, so I went to a book club where I knew no one.
And that stuff can be terrifying, especially for somebody who's not an extrovert and even for somebody who is like, it's weird going somewhere where you don't know anybody, but I mean, ability to it. I met my. Now one of my absolute best friends at one of those book clubs who, bless her, my. So this week's been hard.
Our anniversary was this past week. So not only did I see him, but the day after I saw him, we had our anniversary. And it was hard to get through that day. But when you surround yourself with. With people that check in on you and like, hey, thinking about you today. And my friend took off work so I could go lay at her house, right? All day.
We just laid in red books all day so that I could have a. Be there, be with someone so that I wasn't alone and, you know, and I Asked people that. I didn't ask her to take off, but I said, like, hey, I don't want to be alone this day. Like, what can we do? And she said, hey, how about we have a readathon and you come over and you stay the night?
And so I was, I went over at 8am and I didn't leave until the next morning.
And find yourself those people and surround yourself with those people who are, who are good friends and who will like, be there for you. Because it does help when you don't have closure to have people, people with you. And, and that's why I put emphasis on like putting an effort in friendship so much. Is, you know, it. It really does make a huge difference in how you feel when you have like, people who you can consider to be.
[00:24:00] Speaker A: True friends.
Right. I mean, I am a big proponent of just support generally for any situation. Situation. When we're going through a hard time, when we're struggling with our mental health, when we are coming out of a toxic relationship.
Support is key to.
[00:24:23] Speaker B: Our healing. Yeah. And closure is a. There's a myth in how you get it that may be what you need is.
[00:24:31] Speaker A: The support.
[00:24:32] Speaker B: Yeah.
Yep. So, Suzanne, tell us about of the big myths.
[00:24:37] Speaker A: With.
[00:24:37] Speaker B: Closure.
[00:24:40] Speaker A: Sure.
So with seeking closure, there's often a lot of stories or myths that we will tell ourselves. I'm going to talk. I have like a three common examples that we can talk about here today.
The first is I need their apology to move on.
We're wanting to hear them say, I'm sorry I did you wrong. The problem with this is I've seen people get the apology almost word for word that they wanted and they still don't feel like they have the closure. And this is because we can't undo what has happened in the past.
And oftentimes when we get that apology, that apology can often feel like it's more about them and not about.
[00:25:38] Speaker D: Your healing. I feel like a lot of ladies can relate to that.
I know for myself specifically, when my first marriage ended, like, I just wanted that apology. Like, I wanted him to come forward and admit to the things that I was being told told. And I wanted that apology.
And I don't really think I ever got was a different way around it, but that was something that I wanted was an apology. But in the end, like, I had to do the work on my own. Like, I had to do it for myself instead of wait for him to come forward.
[00:26:10] Speaker B: With.
[00:26:11] Speaker A: That. Right.
And so that's about it. Sounds like for you, Bri, it's Some of what we've been talking about is like creating that time and space for yourself to heal.
[00:26:27] Speaker D: And find. What I've been doing for myself since my last marriage ended is just sort of. Some people may look at it as like I'm self isolating, but I feel like I need to sit with it and process it because if I don't, I don't want to try to replace those feelings with other things and not deal with them on.
[00:26:45] Speaker A: My own.
[00:26:46] Speaker B: Right, right.
Yeah. Getting an apology. I just feel like isn't. I don't even know if Dick's actually said sorry, but it wouldn't matter if he did because I know he's.
[00:26:56] Speaker A: Not well. And again, if he did, like, is that about him want needing to like, absolve himself or is it about.
[00:27:07] Speaker B: Your healing? What, so he could tell people. Yeah, yeah, I said I'm sorry to her. Like, you know, but he. That would actually take him admitting that what he did in the first place or that I even exist.
[00:27:18] Speaker A: Right. So.
[00:27:19] Speaker B: Right, right.
He tries really hard. He's telling all these women he doesn't know about the podcast, but he admitted to me that he knows because he told me something for one of our episodes, which means he listens. He not just knows. He.
So what's another.
[00:27:38] Speaker A: Myth, Suzanne? All right, another myth is one last conversation will help.
If we have that just one more, I'm gonna get the closure we need. And you know what? I think, like a lot of this comes from media, social media representation and romanticizing the, like, how repair can happen in relationships. Like, we imagine it kind of like a movie scene. Like, all right, we meet, we have that conversation and we're healed. And maybe we get back together or maybe we move on. But usually that one last talk just reopens.
[00:28:26] Speaker B: The wound.
And that's interesting. So it's almost like we're romanticizing closure. So we're romanticizing the relationship and then we turn around and romanticize the closure. Yep.
We need to stop romanticizing when we want it, damn it. That life doesn't work out that.
[00:28:42] Speaker A: Way. No. You know what? I think we all love the idea of a happy ending, but in reality, like, romanticizing that idea sets up this situation where we blow past all of the red flags. We blow past how the relationship might be impacting our well being and our.
[00:29:10] Speaker D: Self worth. It's a false sense of present.
[00:29:12] Speaker A: And future.
Right. And then the third common myth is closure means it won't hurt anymore. Right. When a relationship ends, no matter who ends, is painful. Right. We can walk away from a relationship and know that it was the right choice for us, but it doesn't mean that it doesn't hurt anymore. And so then we get this idea of closure around closure, of like, if I get closure, it's not going to hurt anymore. But then we have that conversation, we run into them, and it may feel gratifying and validating in the moment, but in the afterward, the pain doesn't vanish.
Closure just means that you're not hanging your healing on them anymore. You're not waiting for them to bring it to you.
You are finding it and building it.
[00:30:10] Speaker B: For yourself. And how do we build it for ourselves? I think that's.
Instead of putting the emphasis on them, you know, how do we work on accepting the fact that we may never get that apology? And if we do, it may not be real and it may be for them. And if we get that last conversation, chances are it's going to open wounds and. Or they're going to feed more things to you that ends up bringing more questions or makes you feel bad about yourself and makes you feel like you did something.
So instead of doing the those things, what.
How do you know? How do you. Because it's easier said than done just to.
[00:30:45] Speaker A: Block them.
It is, it is. Although if you can manage no contact, at least in the initial phase phases, particularly in the initial phases after the end of a relationship, that can be really helpful because then you're not re engaging in the dynamics of the relationship again.
Some other things that you can do are do things like delete texts and photos.
I am a big proponent of getting their stuff out of your space, like energetically clearing.
[00:31:21] Speaker B: That out.
And if you need it for court, hide it, because. So I have stuff that I needed to record that I still need just in case. And so it's all in my hidden folder so I don't have to see it all the time. So I did. I deleted every photo. I threw every Harley T shirt in the trash. Just literally took it and tossed it. My original wedding dress, it went in the trash. I threw.
I threw away every single thing that had a contact. I threw away the. The sweater that we took engagement pictures of. I threw away.
Yeah, I threw away bath towels. I threw away.
I threw. I threw the couch away, right? Like, I literally threw.
[00:32:03] Speaker A: Away everything.
The mattress and the act itself of getting rid of these things. Whether it's a sweater or a couch.
You are telling yourself that I don't want to be tied to this person anymore. I am no longer going to allow myself to be. Remain tied to somebody who is.
[00:32:29] Speaker B: Already gone. Yeah. And I don't look at his social media at all. I've not once, not one time looked at his social media, so I would say that, too. And I don't even have him blocked, and I still don't look at him. Because if he wants to look at mine, go ahead.
But I'm not. I don't. I think that is a thing in itself. Like, I know that I still have to have contact to some degree because we are tied with the finances, but I don't need to. And while I am in groups that I may see his face and know that he's out there cheating and dating and doing all the things that he's doing, I don't have to see his everyday activities. And I think that that's a big. A big thing too, if you can help. It is, you know, not torture yourself with. With those. But we've all been guilty of it. Everybody's.
[00:33:11] Speaker A: Done.
[00:33:11] Speaker B: It.
Right. So. But it's. It just makes it harder on.
[00:33:15] Speaker A: Yourself, so.
No, it absolutely makes it harder on yourself to constantly be bombarded with them in your mental space, in your physical space, in your inbox, on your social media. The more that you can put that stuff aside, the more space it gives you to invite in other things.
[00:33:43] Speaker D: New things. I know for me, it helps just moving houses, because now I don't see him and his kids driving down the road anymore. Used to I would see them, you know, once a day, just about. And so I don't see that anymore. And that has helped so much, not having to see them out.
[00:33:58] Speaker B: And about.
[00:33:58] Speaker A: I know. Absolutely. Right for you, Bree. Like, it means you're not gonna be caught by surprise. Like, yeah, you knew that he lived there, but you didn't know if him and his kids were gonna.
[00:34:09] Speaker D: Be outside at any given time, passing them on the road, going to work.
[00:34:14] Speaker A: You know.
And then when you did pass them, when you did see them, I imagine, like, your heart went. Heart rate went up a little bit. Like, it was like, okay, I just saw him. Okay. And then you have to, like, re. Regulate. Reset your.
[00:34:28] Speaker D: Nervous.
[00:34:28] Speaker B: System. Yeah. And let me flip.
[00:34:30] Speaker D: Them off.
I'm pretty sure those kids were in the.
[00:34:34] Speaker B: Car, so. No, they know it. They know what a middle.
[00:34:36] Speaker D: Finger is.
I'm well aware of that. They know a lot.
[00:34:39] Speaker B: Of.
[00:34:39] Speaker A: Things.
No, so another thing that I often recommend with my clients, and I will help them to create a structure for it, because I think a structure can.
[00:34:57] Speaker B: Be.
[00:34:57] Speaker A: Helpful. But letter writing, like writing a letter sometimes it's around forgiveness. Sometimes it's just event letter. It's, you know, the letter that you don't send, right. Where you get everything out. The anger, the hurt, the frustration, the questions.
It is a way of externalizing it and separating it from ourselves, but, like, their stuff.
I am also not a fan of my clients holding on to the letter. So I then typically recommend, like, some kind of ritual. And when I say ritual, it does not have to be an elaborate thing, but reading the letter, tearing it into a million little pieces.
Personally, my favorite is like, burning it and letting it go, but finding some way to get rid.
[00:36:00] Speaker D: Of it. Burning flowers. I burned the flowers. That was.
[00:36:03] Speaker B: Really nice. Yeah. Yeah. And I, as your client, I. I did this last October and I wrote everything down that I wanted to say to him, and that was before I even knew everything.
And, you know, I. I even sent it to. To a text message thread with my girlfriends and so said, like, should I send this to them? And of course, their response was, absolutely not.
It's because they were like, it's not going to do you any good. Like, you're not going to get anything from it. And so then, you know, I. I got rid of it afterwards. But it was very therapeutic just to, like, write it all down and get all my thoughts down on paper or in my notes app, on my phone, so.
And then deleting it and it just disappearing into the ether.
So that.
That was nice. And I still do it. There's times I have a lot of random notes, apps, where, like, I'll randomly think of something he did and be like, holy. And then I'll write it down and I will say, that has helped me, like, whenever I did see him, to be able to be like, hey, I know about this. I know about this. I know about this. I know about this because it was things that I would remember later. And then because I wrote it down, it, like, helped me remember it. And it was nice to get all that off, off my chest. It didn't do any good. I still don't have closure. But it also, at least he knows that I'm not stupid, right?
No, he doesn't care. But at least I know that he knows that I'm not stupid. Yeah, like, he. He didn't get away with it because I think that was part of it. He was hoping he got away with a lot of this stuff. And it's like, no, bro, you didn't get away with it. But no, he doesn't give a. Like, he doesn't care. Deep down because he's a self serving person and he only, he has no empathy and he only cares about himself.
But at least for me, it was, you know, I know that he can't.
He could say it, but it isn't true for him to go to his little buddies and be like, yeah, she's an idiot. She has no idea what I did. Like, no.
[00:37:54] Speaker D: I.
[00:37:55] Speaker B: Know.
[00:37:56] Speaker A: Yeah. So.
Right, well, and going back to the letter, like that initial letter you wrote and sharing it with your friends and saying, should I send this to him? And they were like, no, had you sent it, that would have been like the one more conversation or the. Let me tell him one more thing. In hoping for to get like the response that you wanted to help you heal, but with that reality checking with people that support you, they were able to like, no, you're not gonna.
[00:38:31] Speaker B: Get that. Right. And I'm lucky. I mean, thank God all my, all my friends have been to therapy. So all of them were just like, absolutely not. Because like, you may have friends that are like, yeah, do it. And I mean, depending on what it is, as a, as your friend, I might tell you to do it, but not that.
So, you know, only, you know, taking elaborate photo shoots. Yes, do that, but don't send him the. Right. Especially in the beginning, because that was the other thing is it was in the beginning, so there was a lot of emotions. I hadn't worked through any of it. I was super depressed.
It wasn't the me. Now, like, if I was to write a letter today, it'd be a completely different letter than.
[00:39:11] Speaker A: That.
[00:39:12] Speaker B: Letter. Right.
So. Because today it'd be more about forgiving me and working. Forgiving yourself and working through your anger.
[00:39:20] Speaker A: At your. Yourself, which is also another important aspect of healing and closure is finding that forgiveness for yourself and, and the choosing to like blow past the red flags, the choosing to neglect yourself longer than, than maybe you.
[00:39:42] Speaker B: Should have. Yes. And forgiving. Because everybody's like, forgiveness. No, I'm not forgiving. I will never forgive that man ever for what he did to me and what he put me through. But I will work on forgiving myself for allowing him to do that.
[00:39:54] Speaker A: To.
[00:39:54] Speaker B: Me. Right. And for falling into those traps, for not seeing the red flags or for ignoring them. And that's why you go to therapy and why you have to work through things. And again, it takes years to get through. I mean, there's some sessions you and I have where we don't talk about dick anymore, but then there's sessions where we're full on dick Mode. Right.
Yep. So, you.
[00:40:17] Speaker A: Know, that's.
Well. And not talking about him like.
Or for all of the listeners out there. Right. Like, not talking about that person in your relationships, in your therapy sessions, in.
[00:40:31] Speaker B: Your.
[00:40:31] Speaker A: Journaling. Right. It suggests that you're shifting the energy towards your own healing instead of waiting for. For the other person's explanation. And that's where we see forward.
[00:40:43] Speaker B: Motion happening.
Yeah. So it's a.
[00:40:46] Speaker A: Positive thing. It is.
So really, when we think about closure, closure isn't about them doing air quotes, the right thing in the end. It's about you choosing not to let their absence, silence, or excuses define your present and your future. We may think I just need closure, but here's the truth. Waiting for closure from the person who hurt you often just keeps you stuck. We think we need an apology, an explanation, that one last conversation will finally give us a sense of peace. But. But most of the time, it doesn't. Closure rarely comes from the other person.
We have to figure out how to create it for ourselves instead. Because real closure isn't something you're given, but it's something that you decide. The moment that you stop waiting for their version of the story, you open up space for your own version and your.
[00:41:53] Speaker B: Own truth. And I think that's so important to know. So wait, we gotta. We gotta open up that space.
[00:42:02] Speaker D: For.
[00:42:02] Speaker B: Ourselves.
Absolutely.
Well, thank you, Suzanne, for coming on again and for talking to us about, like, closure myths and what it is and what it isn't and what not.
[00:42:11] Speaker A: To.
[00:42:12] Speaker B: Expect.
Absolutely. And maybe what to.
[00:42:15] Speaker A: Do instead. Thank you guys for having me again as a guest. As always, I love sitting down and chatting with.
[00:42:22] Speaker B: You guys. Yep. It's always a good time. And I know that we will have you back on again.
Looking forward to it. All right, see you next.
[00:42:30] Speaker D: Week, Bri. See you next week.
